[nfbcs] Blindness and Computer Science RE: (no subject)

Wed Feb 20 23:15:50 UTC 2013

Another language to look at would be Python.  Even though I mostly
work in PHP and JavaScript at work, Python is my favorite.  It's good
for the web, good for the server, and as a few companies have shown,
such as Dropbox, it can be good for the desktop as well.

Something else I'd add to the conversation is that when you decide to
learn a programming language, you should keep in mind that fluency is
not just about writing well in a language, but also being able to read
and understand what others have written.  For me, the latter has
proven to be much more difficult to master than the former.

Aaron

On 2/20/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
> Teehee. Love it! And all very good. Funny that not that long ago, C/C++,
> etc., was just too old school... So Ms. Too Cool For That Here now
> frequently wishes she'd taken time out to learn it! /lol/
>
> On 02/20/2013 11:56 AM, William Grussenmeyer wrote:
>> the anti-novel
>> two words: mobile programming
>> developers.android.com
>> developer.apple.com
>> languages to know: Java, ObjectiveC, C/C++
>> good books on bookshare.org = easiest ones to read, anything too
>> complicated is worthless
>>
>> You can hook your apple or android phone or tablet directly to your
>> computer and download your app right in front of you.
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/20/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
>>> Zeeshan,
>>>
>>> Those are all great questions! I'll see if I can manage answers without
>>> turning them into a novel. /smile/
>>>
>>> We just moved out into the sticks for family reasons, so what I do now
>>> is wonder how the heck to get into programming somehow here. Which I've
>>> done before, so we'll see how it goes. /smile/ I'm focusing on getting
>>> my database skills back up to snuff, since I see more possibility to use
>>> those for smaller businesses around here. So I'm using php for the
>>> programming to build the user interface on my practice project. The
>>> MySQL/php combination is so ubiquitous these days that it seems as good
>>> a place to start as any, especially since most of my background is
>>> web-based. I do need to pick a non-web language sooner or later to focus
>>> on next. Even what I did know has changed so much that I just need to
>>> relearn everything! /lol/
>>>
>>> I'm still getting information from the job market we just moved from,
>>> and it's finally picking up after the long dearth. One thing I really
>>> notice in those announcements is the focus on experience over education
>>> in qualifications, even for the more advanced positions. Interesting.
>>> Also, more mention of "related experience," which gives latitude for a
>>> career-changer I should think.
>>>
>>> Challenges as a not-young career-change programmer... The biggest hurdle
>>> I've had to overcome is the credibility gap that comes from lack of
>>> sheepskin. But don't you have a degree? That gives you an edge right
>>> there when it comes to having your ideas heard and implemented, which is
>>> what leads to greater opportunity after you do get your foot in the
>>> door. It can be really frustrating, but the solution is patience and a
>>> whole lot of that extra time and effort just to prove yourself. But,
>>> there, the advantage of having worked in other areas of business is that
>>> you can demonstrate that you know a lot that the folks you're working
>>> for will understand and appreciate. When it comes down to it, computer
>>> skill and programming expertise is really great for advancing one's
>>> career without absolutely needing to drop everything to polish off the
>>> degree, which is how I ended up shifting into it. /smile/
>>>
>>> Also, those dreaded young kids who have been programming since they were
>>> in diapers also have a whole lot of energy without necessarily having
>>> gotten into those other life responsibilities us old and weary types
>>> have. They can program circles around you all day, then go home and
>>> spend the night learning all about the new stuff that is coming along
>>> and getting good at it... I've learned to enjoy feeling stupid and left
>>> behind because I can learn a lot from what they're learning. /smile/ I
>>> just have to remember that I can leverage my overall experience and
>>> maturity to keep up in ways they haven't learned to yet.
>>>
>>> I also need to target my off-the-job learning more efficiently, because
>>> everything is always changing. What I know today will get me nowhere
>>> tomorrow. So that counts as a challenge for sure, although that's what I
>>> like about the field. There's a lot of tedium involved in many facets of
>>> the programming process, but you never have time to just settle back and
>>> get bored and complacent. /smile/
>>>
>>> I'd better end the novel now before I get myself in real trouble. I
>>> found making the switch to programming and design and development to be
>>> very worthwhile and keep coming back to that as my best option for
>>> getting back into something I can do as a blind person here, if not so
>>> conveniently as if there were, you know, jobs out here. /lol/ But all
>>> that earlier business experience will come in real handy again as we get
>>> settled and get back out for networking and all. I can, I hope
>>> eventually, chat up some opportunity. /smile/
>>>
>>> Let us know how your further research goes and what you decide to do.
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/19/2013 03:56 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
>>>> Hi Tami,
>>>> Thanks for your thoughtful response.
>>>>
>>>> So what kind of programming do you do now? Do you think age plays a
>>>> factor
>>>> when it comes to learning programming because nowadays you have young
>>>> kids
>>>> in their teens becoming wizards at programming. It seems like your
>>>> experience has been great a a programmer, what are some of the
>>>> challenges
>>>> you face being a programmer in general, not necessarily being blind,
>>>> when
>>>> it came to learning programming? Any specific resources you would be
>>>> able
>>>> ot point me to, as I am looking to get started right away.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Zeeshan
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, and welcome!
>>>>>
>>>>> Like you, I got into programming along the way of my career and made a
>>>>> career switch of it starting about the time I got to be legally blind.
>>>>> I
>>>>> just happened to have the opportunity to pick up a project no one else
>>>>> wanted, which led to a more advanced project, which got me hooked. I
>>>>> could
>>>>> also see the advantage of having those skills for the future because
>>>>> the
>>>>> technology was coming along that would make it possible to continue to
>>>>> do
>>>>> it as I lost the ability to read along the way. Back then, it was a
>>>>> real
>>>>> advantage to be able to read print because there wasn't the equivalent
>>>>> wealth of accessible reading material there is now. Stuff happened, so
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> happy all that material I need to read is available in the formats I
>>>>> need
>>>>> now to get back up to snuff and advance my skills. Whew!
>>>>>
>>>>> Oddly, the new stuff I'm learning nonvisually from the get go is
>>>>> actually
>>>>> proving easier than what I'm re-learning that I learned visually and
>>>>> now
>>>>> have to totally reconceptualize, especially for programming. That
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> prove a thing, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. /smile/ The stuff
>>>>> I
>>>>> used to need a pencil and drawing pad for on the design end is dratted
>>>>> difficult, but since I know blind people who do it and have picked up
>>>>> some
>>>>> hints of how from them, I'm beginning to make headway even there.
>>>>> Whew!
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the bit where you need "a solid foundation in computer science"
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Generally, it is people who *aren't* in the field who come up with
>>>>> that
>>>>> one. Real programmers these days seem to be more of the opinion -- and
>>>>> so
>>>>> am I -- that you can get going and accomplish quite a lot without
>>>>> actually
>>>>> knowing all the nitty gritty underlayers between your program and the
>>>>> machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> That being said, it wouldn't hurt to read up on the machines
>>>>> themselves
>>>>> if
>>>>> you don't already have a general idea of how they work below the
>>>>> surface.
>>>>> Programming is really communicating with the machine in a way that
>>>>> makes
>>>>> sense to it. Most modern programming languages enable you to do that
>>>>> by
>>>>> using existing compilers that translate your instructions down to the
>>>>> machine itself. So if you learn Java, say, you can focus on what is
>>>>> there
>>>>> and let the Java compiler take care of the rest. If that makes sense.
>>>>> But
>>>>> for learning purposes of *how* to use Java to do more than send
>>>>> greetings
>>>>> to the world or make balls bounce colorfully, I think it would be a
>>>>> strength to understand how and why at least in a general way. But that
>>>>> could be just me. /smile/
>>>>>
>>>>> Er... If you haven't really gotten started yet, I will translate my
>>>>> last
>>>>> attempt at humor: "Hello, World!" That is the first program you will
>>>>> ever
>>>>> write in any programming language. /lol/ Then you will probably give
>>>>> greetings in colorful text and... Well, it's a start, and I'm doing
>>>>> more
>>>>> tutorials, and it's still there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/18/2013 08:28 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Nicole,
>>>>>> Yeah sorry about that, I realized I hadn't included a subject after I
>>>>>> sent
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking to establish a solid foundation in programming whether
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> in programming for the computer or the internet. I really want to
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> learning the basics and work my way up to being good enough to land a
>>>>>> job
>>>>>> hopefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I hear many people say is , if you don't have a solid foundation
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> computer science, it doesn't make sense to jump into different
>>>>>> languages
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> you are a beginner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Nicole Torcolini
>>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>**wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    What kind of programming are you thinking about? There is
>>>>>> programming
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> runs on the computer itself and there is programming that works on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> internet. Both have high level and low level languages.
>>>>>>> Also, on a side note, please include subjects in your emails in the
>>>>>>> futures
>>>>>>> as emails without subjects are often suspected of being spam or a
>>>>>>> virus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfbcs
>>>>>>> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:09 PM
>>>>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] (no subject)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a
>>>>>>> legally
>>>>>>> blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already
>>>>>>> gotten
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too
>>>>>>> late
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the field. So how did any of you learn computer science/
>>>>>>> programming?
>>>>>>> What
>>>>>>> resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent
>>>>>>> programmer, or at least good enough to land a job? I am not trying
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> back to school and get a Bachelors as it own't really help me, plus
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> have the time as I am working. I really want to learn computer
>>>>>>> science
>>>>>>> as I
>>>>>>> am looking to make a career change, and the future is in technology.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> aware of many online resources, like codecademy, coursera and other
>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>> things online, but not sure if I should get into these, as I lack a
>>>>>>> foundation in computer science. What is the job market like , in
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> opinion?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences,
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zeeshan Khan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ToiBooks
>>>>>>> www.toibooks.com
>>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/**ToiBooks
>>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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