[nfbcs] Telling employers about disability and question about work expectations

[John G. Heim]

I've made this point many times on this list and others. It's not a 
crime being an average computer technologist -- unless you are blind. A 
lot of average people skate by in life, not just computer technologists 
but teachers, cab drivers, secretaries, brick layers, etc. If you're 
blind, you can't just skate by.

I think the only anser to the dilemma your boss gave you is to work 
twice as hard as the next guy. Or be twice as smart. Or both.

IMO, the real shame is the lack of understanding within the blind 
community for those of us who struggle. I think it comes from people not 
wanting to believe that it can happen to them. If they blame it on the 
blind person, they can fool themselves into thinking that since they 
aren't going to make a mistake like that, it can't happen to them. But 
the truth is that it can happen to anybody. I don't care how good you 
are, the technology might change and your next boss might not give you 
the time you need to adapt. If that has never happened to you, consider 
yourself lucky.


On 10/02/14 07:19, Mike Jolls via nfbcs wrote:
> In my experience, the company values you if you can do for them what they need to have done, and do it quickly.  Their favorite expression is ... "well let's just 'knock this out' " ... meaning ... "get it done as quickly as you can".  The person that can do that is valued more (from my perception)than the person that takes longer.  From my work experience, having good knowledge doesn't matter as much as getting it done fast.  I'm currently working on converting an application from Visual Basic to Java and the web.  The boss laid out a training schedule which was rather aggressive.  I know how fast I read, and this training was all reading.  I was going to have problems with his schedule.  So I told him ... "this is an aggressive schedule - I'll do the best I can but just be aware I may not be able to get it done by the schedule you've set forth".  His response was ... "well if you can't do it, we'll just get someone else who can".  Basically, by setting the schedule the way he did
 ,
 he could tell his boss ... "I'm just setting a reasonable schedule" and he looks good in his boss's eyes.  However what it meant for me was that I have to work extra hours just to keep up.  And that's why I say ... at some level, they don't care if you're disabled ... they just want the work done.
>
> My wife had a similar experience in a job she had one time.  She was in training and was doing her best.  However, she wasn't going as fast as they wanted.  Eventually they let her go.
>
> That's why I asked the question ... are blind (totally or partially sighted) students being told the importance of having their skills up to speed?  And by "up to speed" ... I'm not just using a catchy phrase.  In order to be able to work anywhere you want to work, you have to have the knowledge certainly, but you also have to be able to produce at an acceptable rate.   Perhaps some employers will disregard your "slower speed" because of the disability, and that's great if you work for a company that does.  Not all will.  I think a person has to be prepared for both situations because you never know what environment you're going to find yourself in based on the type of work you choose to do.  I was not told any of this when I was a student.  I had to find out the hard way what happens when you have a disability and it's difficult to keep up.  I just don't want for others be so naïve or unaware  when they enter the workforce as I was, and then have the disappointments that I've had 
 w
hen you aren't valued as much as others and they move ahead and you stand still.
>
> That's why I have a problem with the NFB saying that blindness is merely a nuisance.   I just don't see it that way.  And that's because of my work experience for the last 36 years.  If you're ready, prepared, have all the skills you need (not only academic but also basic blindness skills) then blindness being a "nuisance" may be a possibility.  It hasn't been that way for me, and I know my vision has cost me thousands of dollars in lost income.
>
> I'm not trying to be a defeatist.  I just don't want anybody to have to go through what I've been through.  Knowledge is important.  But having the necessary blindness skills so you can keep up is equally important.
>
>
>> From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: mrspock56 at hotmail.com; nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: RE: [nfbcs] Telling employers about disability and question about work expectations
>> Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 21:04:07 -0700
>>
>> JMHO, some of this may have to do with being blind but not all of it. There
>> are some employers who, regardless of if a person has a disability, treat
>> the people kind of like machines. Here is your work; get it done on time.
>> Oh, and by the way, if one of the other people machines is unable to work,
>> that work also has to get done somehow, even though there are fewer people
>> machines to do it. I think that, when looking for a job, regardless of if a
>> person has a disability, the person should try to gage if the employer just
>> wants another person machine or if the employer is actually going to value
>> that person for the skills and knowledge that that person has. Yes, I might
>> work a little slower than the rest of my coworkers, but the quality of my
>> work is high, and I have skills and knowledge about accessibility that most
>> of my coworkers do not have. My employer values me for who I am, not what I
>> am.
>> As far as disclosing, my vision loss is enough that I could not fake being
>> sighted if I wanted to. Some of my interviews involved working on a
>> computer, so just walking in without giving prior notice of what
>> accommodations I needed would have been a disaster. Finally, most of the
>> positions for which I applied were in accessibility, and disclosing my
>> blindness kind of filled in some of the blanks as to why I was interested
>> and how I had certain background knowledge.
>> Last but not least, I disclose my blindness in situations where there could
>> be problems because I would rather know ahead of time if there are going to
>> be problems than after the fact. In short, if someone is not going to
>> respect me for who I am, I'm not going to work for that person or company.
>> Everyone is going to have a different approach to this depending on a
>> million different factors, including level of blindness and comfort level
>> with being blind. I lost my sight when I was four, so, by the time it came
>> to apply for my first internship, the getting used to blindness and learning
>> blindness skills thing was way behind me.
>> And, yes, someone else earlier talked about employers discussing
>> disabilities. I usually tell people that I am comfortable answering
>> questions. I often find that this is better than just leaving this awkward
>> silence and assumptions floating around the room.
>> Just my thoughts.
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike Jolls via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 11:01 AM
>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nfbcs] Telling employers about disability and question about work
>> expectations
>>
>>
>>
>> I wanted to comment on the
>> post about disclosing your disability on an interview.  I have definite
>> mixed feelings.
>>
>>
>>
>> On one hand, I fully
>> understand the risk you take when you disclose the fact that you're
>> disabled.  People have misconceptions that if you can't see as well as a
>> normally sighted person, or if you're blind, then you're going to have major
>> problems or maybe you can't do the job at all.  I know one time when I was
>> talking to my son's girlfriend about math, she asked . "blind people can't
>> do math, can they?  How do they see to do it?".  I had to inform her that
>> there were methods with Braille to do that, but I could tell she wasn't
>> convinced.  Now if she had these feelings (and she wasn't even a recruiter)
>> you know some others are going to have these feelings as well.  So I get the
>> whole idea of protecting yourself against getting locked out before you get
>> a chance to get out of the blocks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, the
>> employer does need to know what they're getting.  I know in my own
>> situation, my employer hired me not understanding fully what I was capable
>> of, or where my deficiency lay.  And let's be honest . a blind person might
>> not be as fast as a normally sighted person.
>> An employer might want to be aware of the impact of hiring the person.  I
>> know in my own case, my eye doctor told me . based on my vision . "don't get
>> a job where you're constantly under deadline pressure . you probably will
>> have a hard time getting it done in the time they want it done because you
>> can't see as quickly as a normal person".  Yet I got a job as a computer
>> software developer and I have to say that the doctor was right.  I only read
>> 130 words per minute whereas a normal person reads 250.  They can read it
>> faster, and they can do it faster.  And, this problem has killed my career.
>> So does an employer deserve to know the person has a disability so they can
>> decide whether such a deficiency is something they can deal with?  I can
>> definitely see where a person wouldn't want to divulge this since it could
>> mean the difference to getting the job.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can see both sides of
>> the coin.  It's not an easy answer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now here's something I'm
>> curious about.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does it usually take a
>> blind person longer to finish a job than a regularly sighted person?  And by
>> blind, I mean partially sighted or totally blind.  Should the expectation of
>> a blind person be that they'll have to work more hours a day or during the
>> week than a normally sighted person so they can produce at the same level as
>> a normally sighted person?  For me personally, this is something I've had to
>> come to terms with.
>> It's not something I want to do, but I know how fast I read, and I only read
>> about half as fast as a normal person.  Doing Braille, I'm not even that
>> fast.  And around where I work, they don't care if you're disabled or
>> normal.  They just want the work done.  They set the deadline and expect a
>> certain work output level and if you can't do it in 40 hours, then their
>> mentality is . "you do what you have to do to get the job done".  If that
>> means work 60 hours because of your disability, then so be it".  And if you
>> can't satisfy that requirement, they just get someone else to do things and
>> you get what's left.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, what expectation
>> should a low vision / blind person have when getting a job?  That they'll
>> have to work more and harder than a normally sighted person?  I'm curious
>> what your work experience is like.
>> Of course, if you're really fast with Braille (for example) and you can read
>> 200 words per minute with it and can get the same amount of work done as a
>> normal person, then great for you.  You don't necessarily have to work
>> longer and harder.  I know that hasn't been my luck.
>>
>>
>>
>> And if this extra work is
>> true . that is if it's something that you eventually realize you have to do
>> as a blind person . I hope that's something that's being communicated to the
>> kids that are coming along.  It took me a long time to realize that and my
>> career suffered because I wasn't aware of it.  The sooner the person
>> realizes this the sooner they can accept it and move on. For me, that's
>> where blindness is not just a nuisance.  It's been a major roadblock.
>> Perhaps if I had learned Braille earlier than age 48 things would have been
>> different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>>
>>
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