[nfbcs] Helping a software engineer keep his job

[David Andrews]

I have read with interest all the back and forth on this topic, and 
have found it to be interesting, and hopefully useful.  One of the 
takeaways I gekt from it, and from my 30  plus years of experience 
with Assistive Technology is that there is a steep learning curve 
with all of it.  For someone loosing his or her sight, it is a big 
adjustment.  It is an unreasonable expectation by an employer to 
expect him/her to be instantly, or quickly up to speed with 
everything.  It takes a bunch of time, learning, talking to people, 
experimentation, reading, etc.  Plus the person may be having to make 
personal adjustments to changing vision as well.

I have found that there are tasks that we can do as quickly as 
sighted people, some that take more time, and some we can do more 
quickly.  It takes a while to work all of this out on any 
job.  Competitive efficiency is always the hidden elaphant in the 
room, and we don't talk about it a lot, because it makes us all nervous!

Dave

At 11:39 PM 10/17/2014, you wrote:
>Hey David,
>
>I respect everything you say below and think you've got a lot of 
>experience to share.
>
>One thing to consider is that you started with windows and then 
>discovered its deficiencies and decided to move on.
>
>How hard would it have been if you'd started on emacspeak or orca? 
>Especially if you were expected to come up to speed quickly.
>
>I get that there's a balance to strike here.  Jaws is a mature 
>product with a large user base that gets about half the job done. 
>The Linux tools can get much more done, but demand a higher learning 
>curve or self support.
>
>As I think about it, getting him set up with yasr and letting him 
>play is probably not a bad idea at all.  He can use screen or some 
>other multi-windowing terminal environment to boost productivity.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Jim
>
>On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 09:24:47PM -0700, David Tseng wrote:
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > Well, I certainly don't mean to be generalizing which is why I qualified my
> > statement with perhaps, but when every single post mentions Jaws or a
> > Windows related solution, I just found it to be somewhat difficult to stay
> > on the sidelines. Yes, you can use a Windows screen reader and ssh into a
> > linux or unix based box. Does it, over time, help the developer?
> >
> > I spent my undergraduate years at Berkeley doing exactly the above. The
> > biggest issue was always and still is, the substandard access it provides.
> > Very simple things like tab completion, are not read properly or
> > efficiently. Let's not even get into actually trying to edit config files;
> > cursor tracking, for one, simply doesn't work or is flakey. When it comes
> > to doing real work, that's just not acceptable.
> >
> > Anyhow, I digress.
> >
> > If this person really is trying to develop software on linux, then, coming
> > from someone who's worked professionally on Microsoft, Apple, and Linux
> > platforms as a software engineer specifically with screen readers and not
> > magnifiers, I would strongly suggest investing the time to learn the native
> > platform tools.
> >
> > As always, just IMO.
> >
> > - David
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:56 PM, Jim Barbour <jbar at barcore.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Everyone,
> > >
> > > David, I'd like to ask you to reconsider the idea that this list is a
> > > windows biased list.  There are plenty of people on this list who have
> > > windows and a strong understanding of the screen readers that 
> run on them.
> > >
> > > However, there are plenty of people here who are knowledgeable about
> > > VoiceOver on OSX and as you've read a few of us who spend our time on
> > > various UNIXes.
> > >
> > > I've spent 30 years doing UNiX sysadmin, tools development, SRE work for
> > > Google and now private UNIX cloud architecting for Qualcomm.
> > >
> > > I do agree about all the AT tools you recommend, especially 
> emacspeak. I'm
> > > just not sure I'd recommend them for an AT beginner.  Jaws and 
> NVDA have a
> > > much larger user base and so more people to help answer his questions and
> > > help him find his footing.
> > >
> > > However, if the blind person is confident, ready to try new things and
> > > figure things out on his own, then absolutely spend some time with yasr,
> > > emacspeak, or even orca.  I'd just warn him that these tools are not a
> > > polished and well understood as a standard windows screen reader.
> > >
> > > Take Care,
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 06:19:51PM -0700, David Tseng via nfbcs wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I think without a fuller description of the software engineer's current
> > > > setup and level of sight, it's difficult to say exactly what will meet
> > > his
> > > > assistive technology needs.
> > > >
> > > > With that said, I have a few recommendations that may help or lead to
> > > more
> > > > questions and answers. Firstly, this list is probably not the greatest
> > > one
> > > > to ask about linux as it does have a slight or perhaps major Windows
> > > bias.
> > > > For that reason, I would ask on the Orca, Gnome A11y, Speak Up, and
> > > > Emacspeak lists. These are the folks who are using those 
> products day to
> > > > day for both work and play.
> > > > Secondly, if he already knows Emacs, I would highly suggest he pick up
> > > > Emacspeak. It's pretty much the best in class development 
> environment for
> > > > perhaps any software engineer who uses speech on any platform. It does
> > > have
> > > > a decidedly high learning curve, most of which involves learning Emacs
> > > and
> > > > core linux system management. I'm assuming he doesn't know braille;
> > > > otherwise, Brltty is fabulous for post boot access to a linux shell
> > > > environment.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, I'd be happy to chat offline as some things are 
> better discussed
> > > > in a less latent medium as email.
> > > >
> > > > HTH,
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Gary Wunder via nfbcs 
> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Several days ago I was contacted by a software engineer who is going
> > > blind.
> > > > > He uses the Linux operating system, and what he really needs is a way
> > > to
> > > > > efficiently do the things that are required of him as a 
> programmer for
> > > > > Lockheed Martin. His employer seems to be willing to get him any
> > > equipment
> > > > > that might help him in his job, so they have gotten him 
> Zoom text, the
> > > > > K1000, and I think they have even purchased several copies 
> of JAWS for
> > > > > Windows for him to use on several computers. Of course all 
> of these are
> > > > > based on Microsoft Windows, and what he really needs to interact with
> > > is a
> > > > > Linux box. He has figured out a way to do some terminal 
> emulation that
> > > lets
> > > > > him use screen reading technology, but all of the workarounds really
> > > make
> > > > > it
> > > > > difficult for him to do what once was efficient.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do any of you have ideas about how to help him? My impression is that
> > > he is
> > > > > smart, motivated, well regarded by his employer, but at his 
> wits in as
> > > to
> > > > > how to do his job and to meet the deadlines that are being 
> offered. He
> > > is
> > > > > monitoring this list and will appreciate any comments that 
> people care
> > > to
> > > > > give. I will be monitoring the list, but I will be on vacation and
> > > rather
> > > > > out of touch for the next ten days or so. I thank all of you for
> > > thinking
> > > > > about this and giving him your best ideas. His name is Graham Mehl.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Warmly,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary
> > > > >
> > > > > Linix operating system

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org