[nfbcs] The Mac Beckens

Mon Jan 18 07:28:14 UTC 2016

Peter,

>From what I recall, Outspoken was a one man show and when he passed away, so 
did development of his screen reader.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue via nfbcs" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens


> Hello Greg and everyone,
>
> I remember the Outspoken Screen Reader. They had versions for both
> the Mac and Windows. This product has since vanished in to oblivion.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Kearney
> via nfbcs
> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:49 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Gregory Kearney
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>
> Just a bit of history here. The MacintoshOS, the system used before MacOS 
> X,
> had a screen third party screen reader called outSpoken. It wasn't a bad
> product and in fact I still have a copy. However the product went through 
> a
> number of hand before disappearing forever.
>
> VoiceOver was the first and only screen reader for the UNIX based MacOS X
>
> Greg
>
>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 7:34 PM, John G. Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Microsoft is probably responding to the requirements of the 21VACC. 
>> Mobile
> devices have to have a screen reader. They probably figure it's too riskiy
> to count on either nvda or one of the 3rd party screen readers for that.
> After all, there was a 3rd party screen reader for Mac OS. But it went out
> of business. At that point, schools and colleges had to stop bying Macs.
> Apple couldn't let that continue so they developed Voiceover.
>>
>>
>> On 01/17/2016 07:26 PM, Ronald Smith via nfbcs wrote:
>>> Well, I thought I just recently read an article that the American 
>>> Council
> of the Blind is now working with Microsoft to turn Narrator into a full
> fledge screen reader?
>>>
>>> I guess they now want to compete with Apple with their free VoiceOver.
>>>
>>> If so, now we won't have to be bitten by the shark for a thousand 
>>> dollars
> for their screen reader in addition to buying a computer...
>>>
>>> ronsmith131 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Kearney via nfbcs"
>>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: "NFB in Computer Science Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "Gregory Kearney" <gkearney at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 3:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>>
>>>
>>>> Everyone;
>>>>
>>>> I would like to address this matter from a wider perspective. I will 
>>>> not
> engage here in a Mac vs. Windows debate which is a bit like arguing about
> whose religion is better than whose. Rather I would like to look at some
> history and long term trends.
>>>>
>>>> When Microsoft first envisioned Narrator, which was long before Apple's
> VoiceOver. It was promoted as a built in full scale screen reader. 
> Microsoft
> at that time went to the NFB and presented the idea to various parties. 
> What
> they were told was that a built in screen reader would limit consumer 
> choice
> as having a screen reader as part of the OS would, in effect, wipe out the
> market for third party screen readers such as JAWS or WindowEyes. This is
> very likely true as later events would show.
>>>>
>>>> Fundamentally there are two approaches to screen readers. The first is
> like JAWS where the screen reader is adapted the programs which are run. 
> The
> other approach, followed in the Windows environment by NVDA is to build a
> screen reader that follows all the accessibility standard of the OS and 
> then
> expect the applications to be modified to meet those standards. This by 
> the
> way is the approach that VoiceOver employs as well.
>>>>
>>>> The problem for screen reader companies going forward is that the
> computing market is undergoing a major change in the coming decades as we
> move away from computers to mobile devices. The two major vendors of which
> are Apple with it iOS platform and Google with the Android platform. In 
> both
> these cases the screen reader is part of the OS. No one builds a third 
> party
> screen reader for tablets and the ones that at one time existed for mobile
> phones are no longer offered as the phones upon which they ran are not
> offered either.
>>>>
>>>> Given this state of affair the decision by Freedom Scientific to not
> build a Mac version of JAWS so many years ago (pre MacOS X) now looks to 
> be
> a particularly bad given that Apple and then Google would end up in 
> dominate
> market positions in the emerging platform.
>>>>
>>>> Another issue is one of the market for screen readers. While it is true
> that the blind make up but a tiny minority there is a potential screen
> reader market far greater in size. Persons with profound dyslexia are 
> three
> times as numerous as the blind yet this population of screen readers
> consumers remains virtually untapped.
>>>>
>>>> It would seem clear that moving forward the market would move further
> and further away from the third party screen reader and towards ones that
> are part of the OS given that the future of personal computing lies in
> personal mobile devices which have come to dominate the world's, and in
> particularly the developing world's markets where the real growth in this
> century will be found.
>>>>
>>>> At some point I would expect that Microsoft will either upgrade 
>>>> Narrator
> to be the full scale screen reader they intended or buy out an existing 
> one,
> most likely NVDA given the technical design considerations involved. 
> However
> by that point the personal computer market will likely have shifted away 
> for
> the personal computer to the personal device which will have their screen
> readers as a basic part of the operating systems of those devices and thus
> will be the end of the screen reader market as we know it today.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Commonwealth Braille & Talking Book Cooperative Greg Kearney,
>>>> General Manager #320, 185-911 Yates Street Victoria, BC V8V 4Y9
>>>> CANADA
>>>> Email: info at cbtbc.org
>>>> Web: www.cbtbc.org
>>>>
>>>> U.S. Address
>>>> 21908 Almaden Av.
>>>> Cupertino, CA 95014
>>>> UNITED STATES
>>>> Email: gkearney at gmail.com
>>>> Phone: +1 408-780-6535
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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