[nfbcs] The Mac Beckens

[David Andrews]

Actually, this was not true, Berkeley Systems, the developers of 
outSpoken had several employees, including developers, testers etc. 
As someone said, the company changed hands, and people drifted away, 
and lost interest, and the Mac changed completely, so they would have 
had to start over.

They also developed an accessibility engine, for windows screen 
readers, so you could buy it and just do the UI.  ASAW used it, there 
may have been others, but not enough to keep a business going.

Dave

At 01:28 AM 1/18/2016, you wrote:
>Peter,
>
> From what I recall, Outspoken was a one man show and when he passed 
> away, so did development of his screen reader.
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue via nfbcs" 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 8:32 PM
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>
>
>>Hello Greg and everyone,
>>
>>I remember the Outspoken Screen Reader. They had versions for both
>>the Mac and Windows. This product has since vanished in to oblivion.
>>
>>Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Kearney
>>via nfbcs
>>Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:49 PM
>>To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>Cc: Gregory Kearney
>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>
>>Just a bit of history here. The MacintoshOS, the system used before MacOS X,
>>had a screen third party screen reader called outSpoken. It wasn't a bad
>>product and in fact I still have a copy. However the product went through a
>>number of hand before disappearing forever.
>>
>>VoiceOver was the first and only screen reader for the UNIX based MacOS X
>>
>>Greg
>>
>>>On Jan 17, 2016, at 7:34 PM, John G. Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>Microsoft is probably responding to the requirements of the 21VACC. Mobile
>>devices have to have a screen reader. They probably figure it's too riskiy
>>to count on either nvda or one of the 3rd party screen readers for that.
>>After all, there was a 3rd party screen reader for Mac OS. But it went out
>>of business. At that point, schools and colleges had to stop bying Macs.
>>Apple couldn't let that continue so they developed Voiceover.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 01/17/2016 07:26 PM, Ronald Smith via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>Well, I thought I just recently read an article that the American Council
>>of the Blind is now working with Microsoft to turn Narrator into a full
>>fledge screen reader?
>>>>
>>>>I guess they now want to compete with Apple with their free VoiceOver.
>>>>
>>>>If so, now we won't have to be bitten by the shark for a thousand dollars
>>for their screen reader in addition to buying a computer...
>>>>
>>>>ronsmith131 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Kearney via nfbcs"
>>>><nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>To: "NFB in Computer Science Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Cc: "Gregory Kearney" <gkearney at gmail.com>
>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Everyone;
>>>>>
>>>>>I would like to address this matter from a wider perspective. I will not
>>engage here in a Mac vs. Windows debate which is a bit like arguing about
>>whose religion is better than whose. Rather I would like to look at some
>>history and long term trends.
>>>>>
>>>>>When Microsoft first envisioned Narrator, which was long before Apple's
>>VoiceOver. It was promoted as a built in full scale screen reader. Microsoft
>>at that time went to the NFB and presented the idea to various parties. What
>>they were told was that a built in screen reader would limit consumer choice
>>as having a screen reader as part of the OS would, in effect, wipe out the
>>market for third party screen readers such as JAWS or WindowEyes. This is
>>very likely true as later events would show.
>>>>>
>>>>>Fundamentally there are two approaches to screen readers. The first is
>>like JAWS where the screen reader is adapted the programs which are run. The
>>other approach, followed in the Windows environment by NVDA is to build a
>>screen reader that follows all the accessibility standard of the OS and then
>>expect the applications to be modified to meet those standards. This by the
>>way is the approach that VoiceOver employs as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem for screen reader companies going forward is that the
>>computing market is undergoing a major change in the coming decades as we
>>move away from computers to mobile devices. The two major vendors of which
>>are Apple with it iOS platform and Google with the Android platform. In both
>>these cases the screen reader is part of the OS. No one builds a third party
>>screen reader for tablets and the ones that at one time existed for mobile
>>phones are no longer offered as the phones upon which they ran are not
>>offered either.
>>>>>
>>>>>Given this state of affair the decision by Freedom Scientific to not
>>build a Mac version of JAWS so many years ago (pre MacOS X) now looks to be
>>a particularly bad given that Apple and then Google would end up in dominate
>>market positions in the emerging platform.
>>>>>
>>>>>Another issue is one of the market for screen readers. While it is true
>>that the blind make up but a tiny minority there is a potential screen
>>reader market far greater in size. Persons with profound dyslexia are three
>>times as numerous as the blind yet this population of screen readers
>>consumers remains virtually untapped.
>>>>>
>>>>>It would seem clear that moving forward the market would move further
>>and further away from the third party screen reader and towards ones that
>>are part of the OS given that the future of personal computing lies in
>>personal mobile devices which have come to dominate the world's, and in
>>particularly the developing world's markets where the real growth in this
>>century will be found.
>>>>>
>>>>>At some point I would expect that Microsoft will either upgrade Narrator
>>to be the full scale screen reader they intended or buy out an existing one,
>>most likely NVDA given the technical design considerations involved. However
>>by that point the personal computer market will likely have shifted away for
>>the personal computer to the personal device which will have their screen
>>readers as a basic part of the operating systems of those devices and thus
>>will be the end of the screen reader market as we know it today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Commonwealth Braille & Talking Book Cooperative Greg Kearney,
>>>>>General Manager #320, 185-911 Yates Street Victoria, BC V8V 4Y9
>>>>>CANADA
>>>>>Email: info at cbtbc.org
>>>>>Web: www.cbtbc.org
>>>>>
>>>>>U.S. Address
>>>>>21908 Almaden Av.
>>>>>Cupertino, CA 95014
>>>>>UNITED STATES
>>>>>Email: gkearney at gmail.com
>>>>>Phone: +1 408-780-6535

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org