[nfbcs] Mac with Windows Virtual Machine was RE: The Mac Beckens

luis Mendez lmendez716 at gmail.com
Mon Jan 18 16:25:38 UTC 2016 

Virtual machine or Boot Camp. Each has its advantages. Although the feedback that I am getting subjects that running windows under Boot Camp is The more efficient approach because it eliminates work sharply reduces the memory constraints that one encounters running windows as a vertical machine. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> 
>    You mean a virtual machine? Several years ago, I tried that when I
> was required to use a Mac at an internship. It did not work well because,
> even when the maximum amount of memory was given to the vm, JAWS was
> extremely sluggish. Has this improved recently? I have not tried it again
> because I do not care for the Mac. As I already said, Apple seems to be in
> no hurry to fix some of the VoiceOver bugs. I also do not like the way that
> VoiceOver works compared to Windows modal screen readers and the fact that
> many of the VoiceOver require pressing three or more keys.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: luis Mendez [mailto:lmendez716 at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:53 AM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Nicole Torcolini
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
> 
> Good article.  As for Mac versus Windows,  if wou can afford to do so,  buy
> a Mac and install Windows on it. It also helps to get a dedicated Windows
> keyboard.  Thus equipped, you'll have the best of both environments. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:55 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>               Here is my opinion. I will use a Mac when hell freezes
> over.
>> What the devil is so much better about VoiceOver?
>> 
>>               Stop making empty claims without supporting them. Stop 
>> cherry picking the information that you want and ignoring the rest. As 
>> this article 
>> <http://qz.com/588126/theres-a-good-reason-americans-are-horrible-at-s
>> cience />  says, stops using facts "much like a drunk uses a
>> 
>> lamppost: for support, not illumination."
>> 
>>               VoiceOver has just as many, if not more, problems as 
>> other screen readers. I know because many of my coworkers use Macs, 
>> and Apple is introducing more bugs than they are fixing when it comes to
> internet use.
>> And they have no pressure to fix the bugs because, on the Mac, there 
>> is no competition.
>> 
>>               Microsoft has a screen reader; it is called Narrator. I 
>> have heard that it is better on newer versions of Windows, which I 
>> have not tried, but, from my experience, it does not work worth a 
>> damn. I know that Microsoft has some kind of deal with Windows Eyes, 
>> but it does not work well with complex websites. Also, if Microsoft 
>> will not even consider accessibility when making their products, and 
>> do stuff like put the ribbon everywhere, why would they be interested in
> maintaining a screen reader?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Nicole
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter 
>> Donahue via nfbcs
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Peter Donahue
>> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Good morning everyone,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>               If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader 
>> what Apple has done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would 
>> have fewer issues with compatibility and accessibility tools could be 
>> kept up-to-date more easily and with little to no cost. Perhaps some 
>> MAC and iOS users could weigh in on this issue with the petition and 
>> share their experiences with accessing it under iOS and oSX. Perhaps 
>> in another few years we'll be 100% Mac and iOS users in this house-hold.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Peter Donahue
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> From: nfbcs [ <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> 
>> mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain via 
>> nfbcs
>> 
>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
>> 
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> 
>> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President 
>> Obama To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet 
>> Regulations"]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
>> 
>> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or 
>> Office 2010 if not something older. Microsoft and many companies 
>> support products for more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten
> years and beyond.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this 
>> petition has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the 
>> impression that people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing
> the same problem.
>> 
>> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13 
>> can't do the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks. 
>> It seems to me that people are just jumping to conclusions and using 
>> this message to make a point rather than help a JAWS user solve their 
>> problem and submit this petition.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but 
>> I think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm 
>> sure most people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't 
>> need to have their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an
> update.
>> 
>> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is 
>> a two way street, and people need to take into account not just how 
>> their words are intended but how they may be received.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>>> 
>>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with
>> 
>>> one
>> 
>> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one 
>> if you can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of
> free.
>> 
>> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>> 
>> 
>>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and
>> 
>>> that
>> 
>> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really 
>> can't use a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave 
>> correctly with something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>> 
>> 
>>> --
>> 
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> 
>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> 
>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> 
>>> Email:  <mailto:buddy at brannan.name> buddy at brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
>> 
>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of
>> 
>>>> what
>> 
>> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for 
>> people to keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different 
>> screen readers can be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS, 
>> but there's no need to make anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can
> afford to use "antiquated".
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>> 
>>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>> 
>>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>> 
>>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>> 
>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>> 
>>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> 
>>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List < 
>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> 
>>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman < <mailto:k7uij at panix.com> k7uij at panix.com>
>> 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>> 
>>>>>>   JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>> 
>>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>> 
>>>>>> of the problem.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>> 
>>>>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>> 
>>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>> 
>>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Jen
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>> 
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>> 
>>>>>>> To:  <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> 
>>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>> 
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>> 
>>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Greetings:
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the 
>>>>>>> Blind
>> 
>>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>> 
>>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>> 
>>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the 
>>>>>>> Americans
>> 
>>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>> 
>>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>> 
>>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most 
>>>>>>> important
>> 
>>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>> 
>>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be 
>>>>>>> released
>> 
>>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>> 
>>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>> 
>>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers 
>>>>>>> need
>> 
>>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>> 
>>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>> 
>>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>> 
>>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-j
>>>>>>> us>
>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>> 
>>>>>>> tice-promp
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>> 
>>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>> 
>>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>> 
>>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>> 
>>>>>>> Minus), and
>> 
>>>>>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>> 
>>>>>>> button will be selected.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
>> 
>> Mozilla
>> 
>>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>> 
>>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Cordially,
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>> 
>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> 
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> 
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>> 
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%4
>> 
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> ---
>> 
>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> 
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>>>>>>> om
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>> 
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>> 
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
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>>>>>> ix>
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>> 
>>>>>> .com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> --
>> 
>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>> 
>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>> 
>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>> 
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>> 
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>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.
>>>> na>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.na
>> 
>>>> me
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>> 
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>> 
>>> m
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Christopher (CJ)
>> 
>> chaltain at Gmail
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
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