[nfbcs] Mac with Windows Virtual Machine was RE: The Mac Beckens

Bryan Duarte bjduarte at asu.edu
Mon Jan 18 16:52:36 UTC 2016 

I have a boot camp partition on my Mac book air running Windows 10 and Jaws 17. I have no problems at all using jaws on my mac but when I use Windows on my Mac it is for very trivial processes. I typically only use the Windows side to operate my View Plus Braille embosser since they did not build drivers for the Mac. 

I would purchase a VM such as Parallels but when I attempted to install it I found that it was completely inaccessible to install without being able to see the screen so I aborted that software. I found in the past that when I used a VM such as VMware Fusion when I was running Kali linux it was very difficult because there were commands required by Orca which triggered MacosX functionality causing me to exit the VM when I did not mean to. Basically I spent more time messing with the VM than I did using the functionality of the os I was trying to run. It is one thing to use a VM with a mouse where it is all point and clicks but when everything you do is a keyboard command where some are actual system commands it becomes very difficult for the system to keep track of what os you are using and what command it should use. I use partitions on my harddrive when I need to install another computer because it makes the os run as it should with no problems. 

Go Devils!

Bryan Duarte
ASU Software Engineering Graduate Student
QwikEyes CEO



> On Jan 18, 2016, at 9:25 AM, luis Mendez via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Virtual machine or Boot Camp. Each has its advantages. Although the feedback that I am getting subjects that running windows under Boot Camp is The more efficient approach because it eliminates work sharply reduces the memory constraints that one encounters running windows as a vertical machine. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> 
>>   You mean a virtual machine? Several years ago, I tried that when I
>> was required to use a Mac at an internship. It did not work well because,
>> even when the maximum amount of memory was given to the vm, JAWS was
>> extremely sluggish. Has this improved recently? I have not tried it again
>> because I do not care for the Mac. As I already said, Apple seems to be in
>> no hurry to fix some of the VoiceOver bugs. I also do not like the way that
>> VoiceOver works compared to Windows modal screen readers and the fact that
>> many of the VoiceOver require pressing three or more keys.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: luis Mendez [mailto:lmendez716 at gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:53 AM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> Cc: Nicole Torcolini
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>> 
>> Good article.  As for Mac versus Windows,  if wou can afford to do so,  buy
>> a Mac and install Windows on it. It also helps to get a dedicated Windows
>> keyboard.  Thus equipped, you'll have the best of both environments. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:55 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>              Here is my opinion. I will use a Mac when hell freezes
>> over.
>>> What the devil is so much better about VoiceOver?
>>> 
>>>              Stop making empty claims without supporting them. Stop 
>>> cherry picking the information that you want and ignoring the rest. As 
>>> this article 
>>> <http://qz.com/588126/theres-a-good-reason-americans-are-horrible-at-s
>>> cience />  says, stops using facts "much like a drunk uses a
>>> 
>>> lamppost: for support, not illumination."
>>> 
>>>              VoiceOver has just as many, if not more, problems as 
>>> other screen readers. I know because many of my coworkers use Macs, 
>>> and Apple is introducing more bugs than they are fixing when it comes to
>> internet use.
>>> And they have no pressure to fix the bugs because, on the Mac, there 
>>> is no competition.
>>> 
>>>              Microsoft has a screen reader; it is called Narrator. I 
>>> have heard that it is better on newer versions of Windows, which I 
>>> have not tried, but, from my experience, it does not work worth a 
>>> damn. I know that Microsoft has some kind of deal with Windows Eyes, 
>>> but it does not work well with complex websites. Also, if Microsoft 
>>> will not even consider accessibility when making their products, and 
>>> do stuff like put the ribbon everywhere, why would they be interested in
>> maintaining a screen reader?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Nicole
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter 
>>> Donahue via nfbcs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>>> Cc: Peter Donahue
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Good morning everyone,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>              If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader 
>>> what Apple has done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would 
>>> have fewer issues with compatibility and accessibility tools could be 
>>> kept up-to-date more easily and with little to no cost. Perhaps some 
>>> MAC and iOS users could weigh in on this issue with the petition and 
>>> share their experiences with accessing it under iOS and oSX. Perhaps 
>>> in another few years we'll be 100% Mac and iOS users in this house-hold.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Peter Donahue
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> 
>>> From: nfbcs [ <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> 
>>> mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain via 
>>> nfbcs
>>> 
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
>>> 
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> 
>>> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President 
>>> Obama To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet 
>>> Regulations"]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
>>> 
>>> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or 
>>> Office 2010 if not something older. Microsoft and many companies 
>>> support products for more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten
>> years and beyond.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this 
>>> petition has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the 
>>> impression that people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing
>> the same problem.
>>> 
>>> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13 
>>> can't do the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks. 
>>> It seems to me that people are just jumping to conclusions and using 
>>> this message to make a point rather than help a JAWS user solve their 
>>> problem and submit this petition.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but 
>>> I think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm 
>>> sure most people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't 
>>> need to have their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an
>> update.
>>> 
>>> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is 
>>> a two way street, and people need to take into account not just how 
>>> their words are intended but how they may be received.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with
>>> 
>>>> one
>>> 
>>> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one 
>>> if you can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of
>> free.
>>> 
>>> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and
>>> 
>>>> that
>>> 
>>> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really 
>>> can't use a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave 
>>> correctly with something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> --
>>> 
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> 
>>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>> 
>>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>> 
>>>> Email:  <mailto:buddy at brannan.name> buddy at brannan.name
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
>>> 
>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of
>>> 
>>>>> what
>>> 
>>> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for 
>>> people to keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different 
>>> screen readers can be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS, 
>>> but there's no need to make anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can
>> afford to use "antiquated".
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>>> 
>>>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>>> 
>>>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> 
>>>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List < 
>>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> 
>>>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman < <mailto:k7uij at panix.com> k7uij at panix.com>
>>> 
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>> 
>>>>>>>  JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>>> 
>>>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>>> 
>>>>>>> of the problem.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>>> 
>>>>>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>> 
>>>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>>> 
>>>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Jen
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>> 
>>>>>>>> To:  <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>> 
>>>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Greetings:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the 
>>>>>>>> Blind
>>> 
>>>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>>> 
>>>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>>> 
>>>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the 
>>>>>>>> Americans
>>> 
>>>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>>> 
>>>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>>> 
>>>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most 
>>>>>>>> important
>>> 
>>>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>>> 
>>>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be 
>>>>>>>> released
>>> 
>>>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>> 
>>>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>> 
>>>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers 
>>>>>>>> need
>>> 
>>>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>> 
>>>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>>> 
>>>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>>> 
>>>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-j
>>>>>>>> us>
>>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>>> 
>>>>>>>> tice-promp
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>> 
>>>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>> 
>>>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>>> 
>>>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Minus), and
>>> 
>>>>>>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>>> 
>>>>>>>> button will be selected.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
>>> 
>>> Mozilla
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>>> 
>>>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cordially,
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>> 
>>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> 
>>>>>>>> for
>>> 
>>>>>>>> nfbcs:
>>> 
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>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%4
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> ---
>>> 
>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> 
>>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
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>>>>>>>> for
>>> 
>>>>>>>> nfbcs:
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>>>>>>>> .c>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.c
>>> 
>>>>>>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> 
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>>> 
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
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>>> 
>>>>>>> nfbcs:
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>>>>>>> ix>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40panix
>>> 
>>>>>>> .com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> --
>>> 
>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> 
>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> 
>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> for
>>> 
>>> nfbcs:
>>> 
>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.
>>>>> na>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.na
>>> 
>>>>> me
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> 
>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> 
>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
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>>> 
>>> nfbcs:
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>>>> co>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/chaltain%40gmail.co
>>> 
>>>> m
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> 
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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