[nfbcs] Mac with Windows Virtual Machine was RE: The Mac Beckens

Christopher Chaltain chaltain at gmail.com
Mon Jan 18 20:49:19 UTC 2016 

The problem you describe is not a generic issue with virtual machines. I 
run VMware Player on both Windows and Ubuntu, where I run both Linux and 
Windows guest operating systems, and except for changing the hot key 
used to jump out of the guest OS into the native OS, I don't have a 
problem working in the guest OS.

On 18/01/16 10:52, Bryan Duarte via nfbcs wrote:
> I have a boot camp partition on my Mac book air running Windows 10 and Jaws 17. I have no problems at all using jaws on my mac but when I use Windows on my Mac it is for very trivial processes. I typically only use the Windows side to operate my View Plus Braille embosser since they did not build drivers for the Mac.
>
> I would purchase a VM such as Parallels but when I attempted to install it I found that it was completely inaccessible to install without being able to see the screen so I aborted that software. I found in the past that when I used a VM such as VMware Fusion when I was running Kali linux it was very difficult because there were commands required by Orca which triggered MacosX functionality causing me to exit the VM when I did not mean to. Basically I spent more time messing with the VM than I did using the functionality of the os I was trying to run. It is one thing to use a VM with a mouse where it is all point and clicks but when everything you do is a keyboard command where some are actual system commands it becomes very difficult for the system to keep track of what os you are using and what command it should use. I use partitions on my harddrive when I need to install another computer because it makes the os run as it should with no problems.
>
> Go Devils!
>
> Bryan Duarte
> ASU Software Engineering Graduate Student
> QwikEyes CEO
>
>
>
>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 9:25 AM, luis Mendez via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Virtual machine or Boot Camp. Each has its advantages. Although the feedback that I am getting subjects that running windows under Boot Camp is The more efficient approach because it eliminates work sharply reduces the memory constraints that one encounters running windows as a vertical machine.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 18, 2016, at 10:48 AM, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    You mean a virtual machine? Several years ago, I tried that when I
>>> was required to use a Mac at an internship. It did not work well because,
>>> even when the maximum amount of memory was given to the vm, JAWS was
>>> extremely sluggish. Has this improved recently? I have not tried it again
>>> because I do not care for the Mac. As I already said, Apple seems to be in
>>> no hurry to fix some of the VoiceOver bugs. I also do not like the way that
>>> VoiceOver works compared to Windows modal screen readers and the fact that
>>> many of the VoiceOver require pressing three or more keys.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: luis Mendez [mailto:lmendez716 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:53 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Cc: Nicole Torcolini
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>>
>>> Good article.  As for Mac versus Windows,  if wou can afford to do so,  buy
>>> a Mac and install Windows on it. It also helps to get a dedicated Windows
>>> keyboard.  Thus equipped, you'll have the best of both environments.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:55 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>               Here is my opinion. I will use a Mac when hell freezes
>>> over.
>>>> What the devil is so much better about VoiceOver?
>>>>
>>>>               Stop making empty claims without supporting them. Stop
>>>> cherry picking the information that you want and ignoring the rest. As
>>>> this article
>>>> <http://qz.com/588126/theres-a-good-reason-americans-are-horrible-at-s
>>>> cience />  says, stops using facts "much like a drunk uses a
>>>>
>>>> lamppost: for support, not illumination."
>>>>
>>>>               VoiceOver has just as many, if not more, problems as
>>>> other screen readers. I know because many of my coworkers use Macs,
>>>> and Apple is introducing more bugs than they are fixing when it comes to
>>> internet use.
>>>> And they have no pressure to fix the bugs because, on the Mac, there
>>>> is no competition.
>>>>
>>>>               Microsoft has a screen reader; it is called Narrator. I
>>>> have heard that it is better on newer versions of Windows, which I
>>>> have not tried, but, from my experience, it does not work worth a
>>>> damn. I know that Microsoft has some kind of deal with Windows Eyes,
>>>> but it does not work well with complex websites. Also, if Microsoft
>>>> will not even consider accessibility when making their products, and
>>>> do stuff like put the ribbon everywhere, why would they be interested in
>>> maintaining a screen reader?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
>>>> Donahue via nfbcs
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>>>> Cc: Peter Donahue
>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>               If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader
>>>> what Apple has done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would
>>>> have fewer issues with compatibility and accessibility tools could be
>>>> kept up-to-date more easily and with little to no cost. Perhaps some
>>>> MAC and iOS users could weigh in on this issue with the petition and
>>>> share their experiences with accessing it under iOS and oSX. Perhaps
>>>> in another few years we'll be 100% Mac and iOS users in this house-hold.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: nfbcs [ <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>>>> mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain via
>>>> nfbcs
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
>>>>
>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>>
>>>> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President
>>>> Obama To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet
>>>> Regulations"]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or
>>>> Office 2010 if not something older. Microsoft and many companies
>>>> support products for more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten
>>> years and beyond.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this
>>>> petition has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the
>>>> impression that people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing
>>> the same problem.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13
>>>> can't do the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks.
>>>> It seems to me that people are just jumping to conclusions and using
>>>> this message to make a point rather than help a JAWS user solve their
>>>> problem and submit this petition.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but
>>>> I think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm
>>>> sure most people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't
>>>> need to have their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an
>>> update.
>>>>
>>>> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is
>>>> a two way street, and people need to take into account not just how
>>>> their words are intended but how they may be received.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with
>>>>
>>>>> one
>>>>
>>>> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one
>>>> if you can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of
>>> free.
>>>>
>>>> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and
>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really
>>>> can't use a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave
>>>> correctly with something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>
>>>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>>>
>>>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>>>
>>>>> Email:  <mailto:buddy at brannan.name> buddy at brannan.name
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
>>>>
>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of
>>>>
>>>>>> what
>>>>
>>>> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for
>>>> people to keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different
>>>> screen readers can be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS,
>>>> but there's no need to make anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can
>>> afford to use "antiquated".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>>>>
>>>>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>>>>
>>>>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <
>>>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman < <mailto:k7uij at panix.com> k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>   JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>>>>
>>>>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>>>>
>>>>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To:  <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Greetings:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the
>>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the
>>>>>>>>> Americans
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most
>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be
>>>>>>>>> released
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-j
>>>>>>>>> us>
>>>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tice-promp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Minus), and
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> button will be selected.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
>>>>
>>>> Mozilla
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%4
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>>>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>>>> ix>
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>>>>
>>>>>>>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>
>>>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>
>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>
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>>>>>> na>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.na
>>>>
>>>>>> me
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
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>>>>
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>>>>> co>
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>>>>
>>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>>>
>>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
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-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail

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