[nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations

Mon Jan 25 14:33:54 UTC 2016

Doug,

Thank you for a very well thought out and well written message. I think 
the only issue is how it happened that the NFB would pick a site with 
accessibility problems for the petition.  You know, there is an upside 
to that -- it gives us a chance to get back to the developers of that 
sight about their accessibility problems.

I did something like this myself when registering my personal domain 
name. I deliberately picked a domain name registrar with a web site that 
had some accessibility issues and then started filing bug reports. The 
NFB might not have deliberately picked a web site with accessibility 
problems but, IMO, we should look at it as an opportunity, not a mistake.
On 01/25/2016 04:15 AM, Doug Lee via nfbcs wrote:
> I think there is confusion here between primary and secondary goals,
> and on who needs to hear what; so here's a summary of how I see the
> situation:
>
> 1. We wanted the Obama administration to see that a lot of us want something done, so we went to an
> administration site and filed a petition asking them to do it. At this stage, it should be clear that filing
> our petition on our own site would be profoundly useless as no one would even know to come looking for it. It
> would be like announcing to a judge, "I am accused of a crime I did not commit, so I need you to come to my
> house on Thursday to preside over a hearing in my defense." The judge would naturally say, "I'll preside here
> in my court, and my next opening is Friday. See you then."
>
> 2. We needed the administration to see a lot of names, so we went to our own mailing lists and asked blind
> people to sign the petition. Of course this request for help itself needed to be accessible, and it was - it
> was on our own lists and such.
>
> 3. We found that the administration's site was not wonderfully accessible, so we provided help to blind people
> who wanted to sign their names on it anyway. Again, this help was provided accessibly.
>
> 4. We might want the petition itself to be made more accessible. For that, we would go to those who run that
> site and make our case. Making that case here, on our internal lists, is again rather useless because the
> right people won't hear us.
>
> I understand your frustration, and your feeling the irony of this accessibility issue on a petition about
> accessibility. But it is important to keep straight who we are trying to talk to and how to get precisely
> those people to hear us, for each case when we want something done.
>
> Regarding the Facebook comment: Facebook had something to offer people, not something to ask of them. If you want to ask
> something of people, you go to them. You don't make them come to you just to find out what you want. Our primary goal
> here is to ask something of the government, so we went to a government site and filed our request.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 08:39:50PM -0600, NFBCS mailing list wrote:
> Hello Dave and everyone,
>
> 	The only way to put these notions to the test is for the NFB to host
> such petitions on its own Website. Facebook etc were unknowns at one time
> but people spread the word and they're now house-hold social networking
> sites. Obviously if I have information of interest and want to direct
> Internet traffic to it and want visitors to not encounter accessibility
> issues I would host such information on a Website usable by all including
> those who use assistive technology. Furthermore those who visit a Website
> designed with accessibility in mind would see an example of how a Website
> must be designed that is usable by all visitors including the blind. If the
> NFB did this with this petition we wouldn't have our inboxes cluttered by
> messages from those having difficulty signing the petition to wade through.
> Mary and I support the spirit of what we want to see the Obama
> Administration to to improve Internet accessibility but not at the expense
> of having difficulty accessing the very petitions we're being asked to sign.
> This is America and there must be different approaches for solving the same
> issue that appeal to the needs of different people. If organizations like
> the NFB want us to sign petitions of this nature they had better be hosted
> on Websites usable by the blind including the organization's own accessible
> Website. People come after organizations because they're made to do so by
> said organizations hypocritical actions!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 6:33 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: David Andrews
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>
> Peter, get off your high horse. You certainly seem willing to go after the
> NFB at every opportunity.
>
> While the accessibility problems are unfortunate, they are also an
> opportunity to work with the web site developers.
>
> I presume this site was picked because it is an official Obama
> administration site, and they have said they will seriously consider
> anything that gets 100,000 signatures.
>
> I would guess that if we hosted the petition, we would not get such
> consideration.
>
> Dave
>
> At 03:39 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:
>
>
>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>>      It's because the NFB acted irresponsibly and used and placed the
>> petition on a Website with known accessibility issues and no way to
>> fix it. The organization has its in-house content management system
>> and could have hosted it there where it can be managed by in-house
>> technology staff who better understand the business of making Internet
>> resources accessible. I've seen this organization go down this road
>> many times and it's time for it to stop!
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>> Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs wrote:
>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the num
>>> pad, nothing happens.
>>>
>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>>
>>> Jen
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>
>>> Greetings:
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the Blind
>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling on
>>> the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited ADA
>>> internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans with
>>> Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said that he
>>> would issue regulations implementing the requirement for accessible
>>> websites, noting that they would be "the most important updates to the ADA
> since its original enactment."
>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be released
>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>>
>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers need
>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you are),
>>> point your browser to this link.
>>>
>>> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-justice
>>> -promp
>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>>
>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions to
>>> help mitigate that problem.
>>>
>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad Minus), and
>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign" button
>>> will be selected.
>>>
>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the Mozilla
>>> Firefox browser.
>>>
>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such as
>>> the iPad or iPhone.
>>>
>>> Cordially,
>>>
>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>           David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>
>
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