[nfbcs] Communication with people who don't use screen readers

Sat Oct 8 18:59:32 UTC 2016

What do you want to do? Visual Studio has over 4000 keyboard shortcuts. Go to tools>options>keyboard and take a look at some of them.

> On Oct 8, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Sabra Ewing via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have done that and got some hard commands that way, but that has been really difficult. Microsoft has a list of commands, but it is really complicated and doesn't have anything on it that I want to do.
> 
> Sabra Ewing
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2016, at 10:47 PM, Larry Wayland via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Do you know the hotkey commands for visual Studio?
>> If you don't you can look them up on google by searching for "key board
>> commands for visual studio."  Once you have them set down with a class mate,
>> do the command and see what happens.  The class mate might learn something
>> that would help them as well.
>> Larry
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra Ewing via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2016 4:40 PM
>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Sabra Ewing
>> Subject: [nfbcs] Communication with people who don't use screen readers
>> 
>> I am in a visual basic class that uses visual studio. Before we start, note
>> that I have been blind since birth. I know nothing about how sighted people
>> use the computer apart from the fact that their icons look like pictures and
>> they click on them with a mouse. My problem is that even though Visual
>> studio is completely accessible, I don't have any resources to know how to
>> work it and it is not very intuitive. I have been working with my professor
>> and several other people to try to work something out, but they don't know a
>> lot about screen readers. I explained that optimally, I should be able to
>> work Visual Studio myself if I could just know how, but they seem to think
>> that I can't do it because it is too complicated, not because I lack the
>> appropriate resources. It was suggested that I would have an assistant click
>> on things for me and I will tell them what to click on. I explained it that
>> that wasn't going to work, and they thought that it is because I am too
>> independent and don't want to do it, but that isn't it. At this point, I am
>> willing to do anything to get through the class, but I really don't think it
>> would work. I could not tell a sighted person to do something that I know
>> how to do like edit a worksheet and XL or put a header in a word document.
>> So if I can't tell you how to do basic things on the computer using a mouse,
>> how can I tell you how to use a barely familiar piece of software? They say
>> it would be easy though and I would just tell them what to click on, but I
>> can't do that, but I can't explain why to somebody who does not know a lot
>> about screen readers. My professor says that my assistant would not know
>> anything about visual studio so I couldn't use them to cheat on a test, so
>> that means I couldn't just say something like, go to data tools or rename
>> the table. The only way I can think of it to make that work is have a list
>> of things I want to do, followed by a description of how to do it with the
>> mouse, and I would just have to memorize each description, but that would be
>> very diffi!
>> cult, and if the description did not work for my assistant, the only thing
>> I would be able to do is just repeat it. My professor said that I could have
>> the office for students with disabilities produce a tactile picture of the
>> screen. If there is a way to make that work, I would try it, but I don't
>> know how. I don't know how the picture would fit on one page, and even
>> though pages could be stuck together, it would start to get too big for me
>> to read. Plus the screen changes all the time. Even my cited classmates seem
>> to think that if I know where something is on the screen, that will help,
>> but these computers are not touchscreen. I don't know how I would remember
>> that though. For example, if you put a dot on a page, take the page away,
>> and give me a blank page and the dot, I will not be able to put my dot in
>> the same place no matter how many times I look at it. On my phone, I know
>> where things are on the corners of the screen after keeping everything in
>> the same place for four years, but I was thinking about this, and I really
>> have no idea about the location of most of the things on my screen. If I
>> need to go to an app, I flick to the folder where it is, tap on that folder,
>> and go to the page where it is located and then flick until I find it. If I
>> can't do that because it is being really elusive, then I just asked Siri to
>> open it. I can type on a touchscreen keyboard though, so that has to mean I
>> know where the letters are on the screen somehow, but I don't know how that
>> is. That aside, even if I could somehow figure out how to know where things
>> are on the screen, I don't know how I would click on it. I can't use the
>> mouse, but I can't explain to people why that is. They say if I know where
>> it is, then I should be able to point at it with the mouse. Maybe a picture
>> of the screen would be different, but I can't read a tactile nap, and I feel
>> like that ups the risk factor. They tried for years in school to teach me
>> using a variety of methods, but it wouldn't work. The last thing I am trying
>> to explain is that if !
>> you tell me how to do something based on how an icon looks such as go to
>> the green arrow or the red triangle, I will not be able to do it, even if
>> you are asking me to perform a task I already know how to complete. I
>> understand the concept of how an icon can be a picture, and how excited
>> person clicks on that picture to do something, but I cannot match up the
>> pictures they use with what I'm doing. This is not just becoming a problem
>> working the software. It is becoming a problem with learning the material.
>> For example, I was trying to learn to create an error provider control. I
>> did, and there was supposedly an error message flashing when I typed in
>> something in valid, but if someone had not told me, I would not have known
>> that. If I had been using the program, all I would have known is that it
>> wouldn't let me move onto the next text box for some reason. I was told to
>> put something on there called a status bar strip as well, but it didn't do
>> anything. They also say that jaws has a problem because they want to change
>> the text of a button without changing the name. For example, they will place
>> a button that is automatically named button one, then go to the text
>> property and change that to insert or whatever it should be. But when I do
>> that, it just says button one, button  two, and so forth. In order to be
>> able to use the buttons, I have to change the name so it matches up with the
>> text. I don't know exactly what this means, but I'm assuming there is
>> probably a picture of a button like maybe an elevator button, and there is
>> text next to it. Also, when I put a text box, I also have to put a label,
>> but that doesn't make sense because the text box is already labeled. It is
>> automatically labeled text box one when you place it. All I can figure is
>> that sighted people can't see the label for some reason or maybe they need
>> two of them. Well anyways, I need it to be able to communicate with the
>> people I am working with for this class to work out. It has to work out
>> because I somehow made it through visual basic one even t!
>> hough I can only do limited things with visual studio, and my college is
>> switching to C-sharp next semester. That means I will be a semester behind
>> if I don't pass this class because I will have to start over again with
>> C-sharp. What is going to happen as things get more complicated, and I have
>> fewer and fewer tools to communicate because there is no terminology for
>> anything I want to say? I have to say something because they think I'm just
>> being stubborn and don't want to try a new way that could work. I also
>> explained that I don't think using the flow panel to position controls will
>> work, but was told that I have to try so I will know how to do things
>> multiple ways. That sounds nice, but there is something in that exchange
>> that I want to say, which I know what in my mind, but I don't know how to
>> say it in words. For example, I will say I don't think it will work. You
>> will say why not? I will say I don't know, and then you will assume that I
>> have no reason and that I just don't want to try it. The only way I can
>> think of to say it is to imagine that I am an iPhone, and you are asking me
>> to run android. I can't do it because it just won't work. However, I have a
>> feeling that would not make sense to the people I'm working with. If you
>> would give me some suggestions on how I can communicate better, that would
>> be great. Thank you.  
>> 
>> Sabra Ewing
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>> 
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