[nfbcs] nfbcs Digest, Vol 147, Issue 5

Nancy Coffman nancy.l.coffman at gmail.com
Fri Sep 9 12:50:49 UTC 2016 

It may be worth the moment to reset your braille edge. Just briefly press the button, it does not have to be held. Although I just ran the anniversary update, therefore I don't quite know what that means, my braille edge has worked with windows 10. The only problem is that if either one of them goes to sleep, just needs to be restarted to get it to work again. Having to restart JW ass when it goes to sleep is supposed to be fixed in the next firmware for the braille edge. I am looking forward to it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 12:24 PM, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I had similar problems but I got Braille working with both a Freedom Scientific Focus and a Varioultra, both owned by my employer.
> 
> I found the touch typing easier to master than on my iPHONE except for one small glitch; if you try to find the period you trigger a menu which makes the keyboard vanish. I have complained to their access architect about this.
> 
> I agree they need a text-based manual on VoiceView.
> 
> I think I was less annoyed with my Kindle's limitations because I had few expectations; I simply wanted to play with it.
> 
> My husband has a real Nexus; he's sighted and I found it easier to practice the gestures on that. I believe the Kindle screen isn't as sensitive. Once I mastered them on the Nexus I found them easier to execute on the Kindle. I agree the gestures, especially the angle ones are silly but I'm guessing that Android itself recognizes fewer gestures than iOS and TalkBack and VoiceView had to work around it.
> 
> The slider gestures work better with the latest update; move your two fingers left then right very fast and in a very small area. Keep a straight line; it's not like scrubbing on the iDEVICES.
> 
> You might not be able to update the device now that you installed the Google store framework on it. I believe it requires you disable Fire OS updates first, something I refused to do.
> 
> You can shop for books on the Kindle directly. It's easier with a Bluetooth keyboard to enter search strings. But don't use the browser, usethe dedicated Kindle shopping app which is already on the device. 
> 
> You are correct that you can't buy Kindle books directly from the Amazon mobile site. I've complained about this and have gotten personal replies, so Amazon is aware of the problem. You can't buy Kindle books from the mobile site even if you access it on a PC or Mac.
> 
> Make sure your BrailleSense is updated and that BrailleBack really supports it. With the VarioUltra I had to emulate a VarioConnect. Also though the new version of BrailleBack supports my display directly, I'll need to find its apk file and install it manually, and I haven't tried that yet. 
> 
> I'd also like to say something about attitude. If you have too many expectations you are bound to be disappointed. When I wanted to try an iDEVICE, I got an iPOD first. I didn't want to depend on the thing while I was trying to master it. I had an old Nokia phone which I could reliably make calls and store contacts on.
> 
> I played with the iPOD, enjoying games, audio books and music. I goofed around with iMessage and with various VOIP phone solutions.
> 
> When I grew competent with iOS, I got an iPHONE.  When I grew competent with the iPHONE I used it for work. 
> 
> But you can avoid frustration with any device by making sure it starts out as a toy, and not as something on which you must depend. I don't think reading Braille on the Kindle works that great yet, but it did not work that great on my old iPOD either.
> 
> One last tip: use a digital recorder while you fool with a device and record your comments and its voice. Any time you get frustrated you are at risk of blocking out useful information because your emotions get in the way. So record your sessions with a device so you can later review everything the device actually said -- especially when doing a tutorial -- and everything you said, and the mistakes you made while you fooled with it.
> 
> --Debee
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of dan TeVelde via nfbcs
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2016 5:01 PM
> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> Cc: dan.tevelde at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] nfbcs Digest, Vol 147, Issue 5
> 
> I would like to respond to this discussion.  I got a Kindle Fire for Christmas and have been very disappointed.  There is a manual for Voiceview but you need to know how to use voiceview to read it.  That's something amazon should have thought of.  I haven't been able to find a manual online as a text file.  I also find the gestures hard to execute.  There is a tutorial for VoiceView but it only goes so far.  I can't get slider gestures to work even though I follow the instructions.  I also can't seem to remember how to stop speech so this is a real pain.  I also hate the touch typing Android and amazon devices use.
> On top of all of this, I haven't been able to get my Kindle to work with a Braille display.  I tried installing BrailleBack from the amazon store and that didn't work very well.  I contacted amazon and someone in their accessibility group suggested that I modify my Kindle software to allow it to get software from the google Play Store.  I did that and installed the Google version of BrailleBack which didn't work very well either.  The manual for BrailleBack on the google website isn't very helpful, and the response I got from my Braille Sense was unreliable.  Some Braille commands worked, and others didn't.  I finally got amazon to admit that their engineers had tried everything I did and that there are still known issues with Braille.  They offered me my money back but since the device was a gift I'm not sure I'm going to send it back.
> I've tried the IOS Kindle app but wasn't crazy about the Braille support there either.  My reason for getting the Kindle was to read books.  I also thought it would be easier to order books from the Kindle directly and not use the amazon website.  Strangely enough, you can use the IOS amazon app to search for books and add them to a wish list but you can't buy them from the app.  You have to go to their website which is a pain to use.  Now I'm back to square one.  My only option which works very well to read Kindle books is to use the Codex software to break the DRM and convert the book into a format I can read with my Braille Sense.
> I know the Federation reached an agreement with Amazon but I'm not sure what that will mean in terms of access to Braille.
> On top of all of this, I couldn't get my Braille Edge to work with a Linux machine using Orca.  Now the Braille Edge won't work with my Windows 10 machine either.  I guess I've had a bad day.
> Sorry for the rant but I wanted to get it off my chest.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of nfbcs-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2016 7:00 AM
> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> Subject: nfbcs Digest, Vol 147, Issue 5
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Kindle Fire tablet (Elizabeth Campbell)
>   2. Re: Kindle Fire tablet (Buddy Brannan)
>   3. Re: Kindle Fire tablet (Elizabeth Campbell)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 11:18:29 -0500
> From: "Elizabeth Campbell" <batescampbell at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nfbcs] Kindle Fire tablet
> Message-ID: <007a01d1fafe$7dd05ee0$79711ca0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> 
> I recently purchased a Kindle fire tablet to try since they are not very expensive.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone on list has one,and if so, what are your impressions?
> 
> I think the VoiceView is far more difficult to use than VoiceOver in IOS.
> For instance, I am trying to set up my wifi so that I can enter my Amazon account information, but I can't get the shift to work to capitalize letters using the on screen keyboard, and my password is a mix of lower and upper case letters along with numbers.
> 
> I ordered a Bluetooth keyboard, but it hasn't arrived yet.
> 
> I like the idea of having a very small tablet for reading books, etc. when I'm traveling, and this is not to replace the iPhone or my Windows 10 laptop by any means.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone is using the Kindle Fire and has any pointers, please pass them along.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Liz Campbell
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 12:23:24 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Kindle Fire tablet
> Message-ID: <C7D9D88D-005B-4179-A3AD-30960383DDF8 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My opinion agrees with your opinion. It's good for something that costs $49, but as with previous Fire tablets (like the first one I bought), it seems to me that gestures have to be quite exaggerated to be properly recognized.
> Some gestures are also a bit non-intuitive, but at least the settings to change granularity, among other things, are not using a circle gesture anymore. 
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Elizabeth Campbell via nfbcs
> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I recently purchased a Kindle fire tablet to try since they are not 
>> very expensive.
>> 
>> I was wondering if anyone on list has one,and if so, what are your 
>> impressions?
>> 
>> I think the VoiceView is far more difficult to use than VoiceOver in IOS.
>> For instance, I am trying to set up my wifi so that I can enter my 
>> Amazon account information, but I can't get the shift to work to 
>> capitalize
> letters
>> using the on screen keyboard, and my password is a mix of lower and 
>> upper case letters along with numbers.
>> 
>> I ordered a Bluetooth keyboard, but it hasn't arrived yet.
>> 
>> I like the idea of having a very small tablet for reading books, etc. 
>> when I'm traveling, and this is not to replace the iPhone or my 
>> Windows 10
> laptop
>> by any means.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If anyone is using the Kindle Fire and has any pointers, please pass 
>> them along.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Liz Campbell
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbcs mailing list
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2016 12:03:22 -0500
> From: Elizabeth Campbell <batescampbell at gmail.com>
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Kindle Fire tablet
> Message-ID: <3CBBA017-81BE-4EE8-8B3D-F4C1E6766FF6 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi buddy,
> I have not really played with the granularity settings yet. I find that sometimes I have to tap on the screen three times in order for me to activate an icon I know that voice you says to double tap but even if I double tap slowly nothing seems to happen.
> 
> Liz Campbell Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 11:23 AM, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs 
>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My opinion agrees with your opinion. It's good for something that 
>> costs
> $49, but as with previous Fire tablets (like the first one I bought), it seems to me that gestures have to be quite exaggerated to be properly recognized. Some gestures are also a bit non-intuitive, but at least the settings to change granularity, among other things, are not using a circle gesture anymore. 
>> 
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 20, 2016, at 12:18 PM, Elizabeth Campbell via nfbcs
> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I recently purchased a Kindle fire tablet to try since they are not 
>>> very expensive.
>>> 
>>> I was wondering if anyone on list has one,and if so, what are your 
>>> impressions?
>>> 
>>> I think the VoiceView is far more difficult to use than VoiceOver in IOS.
>>> For instance, I am trying to set up my wifi so that I can enter my 
>>> Amazon account information, but I can't get the shift to work to 
>>> capitalize
> letters
>>> using the on screen keyboard, and my password is a mix of lower and 
>>> upper case letters along with numbers.
>>> 
>>> I ordered a Bluetooth keyboard, but it hasn't arrived yet.
>>> 
>>> I like the idea of having a very small tablet for reading books, etc.
> when
>>> I'm traveling, and this is not to replace the iPhone or my Windows 10
> laptop
>>> by any means.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If anyone is using the Kindle Fire and has any pointers, please pass 
>>> them along.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Liz Campbell
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
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>> 
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> End of nfbcs Digest, Vol 147, Issue 5
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