[nfbcs] purpose of division

Sat Nov 24 23:21:38 UTC 2018

Which browser are you on?

This appears to be a ReCAPTCHA, which tend to work a lot better if you
first login to your google account in the same browser first.

Hope this helps.

Aaron

On 11/24/18, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thank you for providing an overview.
> This was not the first time I have found this style of captia, it just
> seems
> to be found more often and spurred irritation.
> The site was www.rc10.com and the captia is found after hitting the login
> link then the create account link.
> There was a chance for an audio challenge but jaws said it was not
> available.
> Bryan Schulz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 2:45 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>
> Bryan,
>
> When trying to figure out the purpose of your messages I am always left
> wondering if you really want an answer to questions or are you just wanting
> a chance to take a shot at us.  I think, though, there is a reasonable
> chance that trying to answer your questions is worthwhile.
>
> First, I don't know that NFBCS was ever seen as a vehicle for general
> advocacy.  That has always been more a function of our national
> organization
> as a whole.  As a long-time NFBCS member and officer, I do feel we serve a
> useful purpose by working with specific companies with which we have had
> long-term relationships and by trying to make information available.  Also,
> people on this list can sometimes be a useful resource in finding
> workarounds.  Collectively, we have expertise that can help to understand
> why a problem exists and maybe even help to prioritize which problems can
> likely be solved easily and which cannot.
>
> I readily admit that it is sometimes difficult to know where it is best to
> bring a concern about accessibility, though.  Sometimes some of us can help
> with that.  The cold hard facts, though, are that we still have too many
> accessibility issues to successfully deal with every one brought to our
> attention.  One of the areas I volunteer in is dealing with Microsoft.
> There are so many issues even with Microsoft that we are not able to push
> all of them effectively, even though we've seen a good deal of progress.
> Also, we need people who actually have the experience with a given problem
> to help.  I know nothing about the testing software you mention so can't
> deal with specifics of that very effectively.  I don't remember exactly how
> you brought the accessible comptia/Microsoft testing software  issues to
> NFBCS, but this isn't an issue with which I was familiar.  If you describe
> the issue in more detail, I am certainly willing to raise it with Microsoft
> whenever I am next in a meeting with them.  Even so, sometimes we have to
> decide where to push hardest.  An issue like this sometimes gets less
> emphasis than an issue like not being able to enter a password in Outlook
> when the credentials screen doesn't get focus because that may affect more
> people.
>
> One also has to understand that there is no law that says everything has to
> be accessible.  There are clear laws that require accessibility in specific
> cases, but this means that we can't just launch a lawsuit for any
> accessibility issue.  Sometimes the law covers institutions that use a
> given
> pice of software and not the actual creators of software, for example.
> This
> doesn't mean there isn't anything that can be done, but it can affect the
> path taken, and it often means that solutions take a long time to find.  We
> need help from our members sometimes to really understand a problem and to
> document it and help us move forward with it.
>
> Finally, CAPTCHAs are a real challenge.  Some of us have been trying to
> affect their use for a long time.  I share your fear that the use of AIRA,
> Be My Eyes, and other such solutions may give some companies an excuse not
> to do anything, and this cannot become acceptable.  Audio CAPTCHAs are
> pretty common now and you didn't say if the company you dealt with had one
> or not.  This is a fairly accepted solution among those who require
> CAPTCHAs, but it still leaves out those who have both vision and hearing
> loss.  My experience has been that audio CAPTCHAs are more reliable now
> than
> they have been in the past.  I have personally looked at some alternatives
> that appear to work but turn out to have limitations.  When you look at the
> ability of SIRI, Alexa, and Google Home to analyze and break down the
> syntax
> of questions asked of them, it is clear that most word problem solutions
> offer limited protection from robots attempting to gain access to a system.
> It is starting to appear that Google is a major player in CAPTCHAs, though.
> Many companies use Google's CAPTCHA service.  Possibly that may provide a
> useful pressure point.
>
> Bryan, I realize this is probably not a satisfactory answer.  Also, the
> president of NFBCS may have more to say on this as well.  However, laying
> out the specific problems you are having, even on this list, can be helpful
> by making more of us aware of what people are encountering.  Also,
> sometimes, it may turn out somebody else has found a workaround or may be
> further along in pursuing a solution.  Finally, sometimes it is helpful to
> those of us who volunteer in this area to be reminded of the common
> frustrations being encountered.  This can help us know, both as the NFBCS
> division and as an organization as a whole, how we can most effectively
> approach issues.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via nfbcs
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 3:49 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> This may be a bit off topic because it is actually a web site issue.
>
> In my opinion the cs division doesn't do much especially towards advocacy
> with topics that affect using computers/web sites.
>
> Several months ago, there was no interest by the division to address cisco
> software or the topic of accessible comptia/Microsoft testing software.
>
>
>
> My point today deals with website captia systems.
>
> You have probably had to ask for visual assistance with what happens after
> you check the box with the words 'I am not a robot'.
>
> Blind computer users are not going to know which pictures to click when the
> instruction says something like click all of the stop signs.
>
> You will probably react by saying use aira and the person will tell you
> where to move the mouse.
>
> Well the cheapest plan is about $50 a month for only 60 minutes of help
> time
> and that shouldn't be required.
>
> I had to place an order today to get a great deal and couldn't wait for
> someone to respond from the company and was able to create an account after
> obtaining visual assistance.
>
>
>
> I continue to feel left to flap in the wind by the nfb/nfbcs and it seems
> nothing is done once a year other than asking several people to speak at
> the
> division meeting at the convention.
>
> I'm sure this will ruffle feathers but so what, nothing is being done
> anyway
> so tell me the purpose of the division!
>
>
>
> Bryan Schulz
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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