[nfbcs] Suing a seemingly accessible web site

Sat Feb 16 19:36:15 UTC 2019

	Especially since the owners of the website might be willing to fix the problem if approached in a friendly manner.
	JMHO, I also think that some people forget that sighted people don't normally understand accessibility. If you can get it to function by using a mouse, then they think that that is enough. Terms like ARIA and even screen reader are often completely unknown to them. I am not saying that that is a legitimate reason to have poor accessibility, but it does not help to get angry about something that most people don't understand.
	Finally, it is also important to remember that different screen readers function differently, and most people who do accessibility testing don't really know how to use a screen reader. People are probably more likely to try something with a free screen reader like Chrome Vox or VoiceOver than download a demo of JAWS. So, it is perfectly possible that someone who does not really know how to use a screen reader went over a website with CV or VO and does not realize that what worked fine for those screen readers might not work for NVDA or JAWS.
	Oh, and on the off chance that a web owner did use one of the free browser extensions that tests for accessibility, those do not catch *everytingh*, especially the more complex issues of page layout.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin via nfbcs
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 10:54 AM
To: Christopher Chaltain; NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: Kevin
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Suing a seemingly accessible web site

By all means, throw the book at those who will not follow the law.  I 
just don't like this knee jerk reaction we often see.

On 2/16/2019 11:52 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
> I agree with you if you're talking about this particular web site, but 
> IMHO, there are plenty of cases where there is no work around and we 
> should resort to protests and legal action. Obviously, this shouldn't 
> be the first course of action, but if the company is unwilling to 
> listen to legitimate issues around accessibility then the law that's 
> on the books should be enforced.
>
>
> On 2/16/19 10:29 AM, Kevin via nfbcs wrote:
>> Yes indeed, but I think it is high time we do away with this march on 
>> Washington, off with there heads, yell in the streets garbage. 
>> Everything has a work around and I doubt the issues are so bad as to 
>> render the site unusable.
>>
>>
>> On 2/16/2019 11:25 AM, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>>> While it’s possible, even probable, that this is one of those scum 
>>> sucking bottom feeding ambulance chasing types that’s out for a 
>>> quick buck on the backs of real accessibility issues, you know the 
>>> kind…drive by business and sue for ADA violations without actually 
>>> patronizing the company in question…it’s also possible that it 
>>> isn’t. There are, after all, other accessibility concerns besides 
>>> blindness ones. How does the site stack up to WCAG standards? Is 
>>> there enough contrast? Does screen enlargement properly scale? Is 
>>> the site fully navigable by keyboard? If it has any carousels, can 
>>> they be paused or stopped? What about access to modal dialogs? Are 
>>> videos properly captioned? There really are a s**t ton of 
>>> accessibility concerns not at all related to screen reader usage. 
>>> So, yes. The people suing this company may well be the wrong sort of 
>>> people, with no real beef. But before making that accusation, it’s 
>>> probably a good idea to see what the actual complaint is. No, I 
>>> don’t advocate suing right off the bat either.
>>>
>>>> On Feb 16, 2019, at 11:16 AM, Kevin via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you.  It makes me so sick I could throw up! This is 
>>>> the world we live in I'm sad to say.  No doubt any judge would 
>>>> laugh this out of court.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/15/2019 10:03 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>> I was contacted by a lawyer today because one of his clients is 
>>>>> being sued under the ADA because their web site is not accessible. 
>>>>> I went to the web site and I couldn't find a single issue with the 
>>>>> site. In fact, it may be the most accessible and easiest to use 
>>>>> shopping site I've ever visited. The web site is 
>>>>> https://www.evolutionsalt.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> If anyone goes to the web site and finds any issues with it, 
>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm obviously very much in favor of making web sites accessible, 
>>>>> and I'm not opposed to using the ADA and a law suit as a last 
>>>>> resort to force a company in complying with the law. I'm also very 
>>>>> much against frivolous lawsuits against sites that are accessible 
>>>>> just to get some kind of a settlement for a nuisance lawsuit. I 
>>>>> think this makes blind people look bad and petty, and it makes it 
>>>>> harder for us to address issues with sites that are legitimately 
>>>>> inaccessible.
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, this lawyer just reached out to me since he knew I was blind 
>>>>> and used the web.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---
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