[nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,

[Diana Mohnke]

Hello, 
 
I found the below message from Joe to be very rude and disrespectful.  I find it very disappointing that it has once again come to bashing specific individuals on a very public listserv.  I do not believe it should happen and it should be dealt with in the proper manner.  
 
As members of the National Federation of the Blind we are to be respectful of others ideas and opinions even when we disagree.  It is disappointing to note that people within our own organization feel it is okay to negatively attack individuals.  I would think that we should spend our energies spent on helping each other instead of attacking one another.  It is hard enough that we are negatively stereotyped by sighted individuals you would think that those of us who are blind would rather fight the same battles instead of battling against one another.  
 
Joe, you should note that Mary Wurtzel made the motion, not Donna.  There was a discussion about the motion at which everyone was given an opportunity to give their opinions.  Then Larry called for a vote in which only the board voted upon the motion. 
 
And I am wondering why you included all the Mohnke sisters in your attack.  Just to let you know we are three different individuals with our own opinions, ideas, interests and talents and are not just one person speaking for all three.  So if you are talking about Elizabeth then just say her name but do not include the Mohnke sisters when you are only talking about one.  
 
You stated, “and I'll not tolerate any further and totally hypocritical attacks upon my person”.  Don’t you think that Elizabeth and Donna feel the same way?  That they will no longer tolerate the attacks you make against them? 
 
I only hope that respect towards other individuals would occur in the future.  When we steer towards hateful and demeaning attacks we are not helping anyone.  
 
Sincerely, 
Diana 



________________________________
From: joe harcz Comcast <joeharcz at comcast.net>
To: NFB of Michigan Internet Mailing List <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,

Hello,

Thank you for these minutes as always.

And I'd like to take [personal opportunity to thank one and all on my personal behalf let alone on the behalf of others for which I've fought and, continue to fight for period.

However, being only human I do wish to know who voted against me, or rather for those who singled me out for censorship.

I don't ask this for any sort of retribution, but only because I, personally have only so much resources.

I simply cannot and will not work for those who attack me directly and in official capacity. I hope that folks understand this. I am not so shallow as I am vindictive or that I would otherwise retaliate  against such individuals for I'm not like that. But again I won't work or advocate or expend any free energy for those who personally attacked me or again subscribed for my censorship in stark violation of my given human and civil and constitutional rights. Namely I won't work personally for example on behalf of Donna even as I've done openly on this listand others in the past though I'll continue to work for and on behalf of all the blind and Donna would most assuredly benefit from that personally along with others of course.

Now, am I to understand from these minutes and subsequent discussions that it was Donna Posant who initiated this personal attack and that it was Elizabeth who aided and abetted it?

Ironic as it all is and as frankly gutless as it all is we are all adults here and if someone has a problem with me on or off the list he or she can direct comments to me  directly on this list or at my e-mail at: joeharcz at comcast.net.

I've pretty much refrained from open commentary on this list because we do not need a "house divided".

But, upon reflection and upon seeing this once again, and on the eve of our state convention in which I've invested numerous hours, and shallow resources to be continually slapped in the face by shallow individuals who do not have the plain courage to confront me directly is, frankly beyond the pale.

Again, it is also hypocritical, counterproductive and hurts the body politic more than it hurts me though I cannot state being human and working for the benefit of all who are blind for years without one single dime of pay  this doesn't hurt my feelings.

If Donna and Elizabeth can't figure out the difference between so-called "personal attacks" upon a public official who bbilks more than one hundred and twenty five thousand per year and all his perks and benefits at the taxpayer's teet while screwing with the blind for his sighted masters and for his own kicks like Pat Cannon and me, who doesn't get one dime but rather gets peed upon by the likes of Donna and Elizabeth over and over again I just don't know what is what? Can you and the Monke sisters including Elizabeth figure this out donna; or the groos coardly and hypocritical elements of it all that is? And if this all has to do with Larry and not me personally and your personal relationship than that makes matters worse in my mind for it defiles once again the goals and aspirations of all blind folks over personal issues.

Listen one and all there are performance standards for public officials.

They are what they are in any democratic-republic. Like it or lump it! If you, Donna, and you Elizabeth like a dictatorship then go to some other country and don't let the freedom of this democracy hit you in the back end on your way out!

I am as serious as a heart attack about that statement.

If either one of you don't like me personally it is ok, frankly right now I don't like either of you for obvious reasons.

Now, if on the other hand you wish to apologize either individually or together for your direct, and personal and divisive attacks made in this meeting I'm willing to be a human and forgive you for these affronts.

Regardless, I am dedicated and will be diligent towards what I perceive as advancements of all human beings with a special concern towards the advancement of those who are blind whether or not, I like the people particularly or not.

I'm sorry I must amend the prior statement. I will now and continually fight against the perfidy of two individuals from the public roles who are blind . They are Patrick D. Cannon and Leemon Jones. And I fight against them for their betrayal of the public trust in their official capacity and their long standing perfidy against those who are blind including both of you by the by, but certainly not exclusive of either of you.

Both of you have been hit by amonst other things the perversions and the arbitrary and capricious and total violations of the Rehabilitation Act spear headed by Cannon and Jones.

Those are facts and they are indisputable facts in the public record.

More importantly these facts, again born in the public record exemplify acts by these public officials in violation of laws against all whom are blind.

It is now time to decide in my mind just whose side you, Donna Poseant and you, Elizabeth Monke are on.

You have every right to state up front, and again on this very list if you have the temerity to do so any opposition to what I've said here.

You have every right to state your opinion. You can do whatever you wish as human beings and as even officers like Donna has done. This is your innate and human and civil right endowed by our beloved United States Constitution which you've spit upon and denigrated here in the public record. I unlike you both won't take that right from either of you.

But, don't again for one moment think you can get away with sneaky, cowardly and insidious attacks upon my person, or engage openly in actions against my human and civil rights as you did in the public albeit behind my back at the time without comment or without a counter defense.

Don't for one minute think this is not a cowardly attack upon my person and against the public interest.

You both made this beyond what it ever should have been.

You both again have gone beyond the pale and have sold out to the devil so-to-speak.

I am not Jesus, and do not claim to be and will not "turn the other cheek".

This is stated for the public record. On the record. And I'll not tolerate any further, and totally  hypocritical attacks upon my person and again against the body politic this ever again.

Both of you and your cohorts are free to leave NFB MI or stay. Elizabeth you've complained and not only here on list about this that and the other thing, often as I've asserted, and in my opinion rightfully so, but then bitten myself and others on the ass even after that affirmation, and then you continue to state you are thinking about leaving this organization. Well don't let me stand in your way and don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out either please.

And don't give me either of you this paranoid "talking behind my back" garbage. I do my bidding right here and in public and up close and personal unlike, once again the cowardly types like yourselves or the likes of worse, once again public officials like Pat Cannon and Leemon Jones who are highly paid Uncle Toms and yes, that is a personal attack verified by facts for they've sold us out for their "thirty pieces of silver" over and over again.

My girlfriend  just so happens to be Jewish and there were those in her extended family who were in concentration camps and there were those unfortunates in those dire times who sold out their own, perhaps out of utter desperation. They were called "Kapos" by the Nazis and "Hudenrats' by their brethren.

Regardless and in simple terms here folks are either a part of the problem or they are part of the solution.

Which do either and/or  you wish to be?



Respectfully,

Joe

f


----- Original Message ----- From: <trising at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBofMichigan List" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: [nfbmi-talk] October 13, 2011 Minutes,


> National Federation of the Blind of Michigan Board Meeting
> October 13, 2011 Minutes,
> Quorum Marcus Simmons, Larry Posont, Terri Wilcox, Dave Robinson, Mike Powell, Donna Posont, and Mary Wurtzel.
> Secretary's Report, Terri Wilcox. Donna Posont moved to adopt the Secretary's Report. Marcus Simmons seconded the motion. The Secretary's Report was approved.
> Treasurer's Report, Mary Wurtzel. There is a new youth account that facilitates the keeping of separate books for both the Youth and Affiliate accounts. The affiliate has around $1,500 minus a receipt for printing and mailing the flyer for State Convention plus the two phone bills.
> Introduction of participating Members.
> President's Report, Larry Posont. Larry Posont, and possibly others are meeting with a veteran who is blind who is coming to
> Convention. He has very young children. He has a custody battle because of his blindness.
> State Convention, Update. Mary Wurtzel is going to Kalamazoo next week to finalize rooms for Convention meetings. J.J. Meddaugh and Mike Powell are investigating incomplete registrations. Larry Posont and Brunhilde Merck-Adam have discussed the Parents Seminar. A rough draft of the final Agenda should be completed by the end of next week.
> Larry Posont represented the Commission Board at the American Council of the Blind Convention. Operators
> Meeting on Friday from 9:30 to 3:00 P.M. Lunch will be served on Friday for $12.00 Lunch tickets must be sold at Registration for
> around $12.00 or $14.00 for Saturday's lunch at the hotel. The Merchants Division has volunteered to operate the hospitality room. There may be a shuttle to another restaurant. The hotel is being difficult. There will be some fun Friday night from approximately 9:00 to 11:00. Chapters can sell fund raisers. The Ann Arbor Chapter will sell tickets for the gift card Raffle at 1 ticket for $3.00 and 2 tickets for $5.00. Kalamazoo may host Family Feud. Cider and doughnuts may be offered. Larry Posont will finalize youth activities with Melinda Latham on the Agenda. Leader Dog is attending the convention and speaking on the cane travel
> program, summer camps for kids, and the Global Positioning System Program. A National Student Representative will be at
> State Convention. Elizabeth Mohnke recommends that we have her speak on the Saturday Agenda.
> Send Out Flyers Update. 1,000 Flyers went out thanks to Fred and Mary Wurtzel plus Sheila Latham.
> Newsline Update. Larry Posont had a discussion with Pat Cannon and the National Office concerning Newsline. The department of Licensing
> Has the Commission Board Minutes. Larry Posont will meet with Steve Arwood if he does not hear by next week. Pat Cannon said that payments will come year by year rather than in a five year lump sum.
> Monitoring Report. The Commission says that corrections were sent to Rsa but they have not heard if the corrections were acceptable.
> New Business: Dave Robinson is looking at prices and possibilities about fund raising at National Convention. Smart is cutting twenty two percent of their routes. Smart is South Eastern Michigan Rapid Transit.
> There have been complaints concerning posts on the list serve. There is concern that these posts give our list a bad name and a bad reputation.
> A call was issued for volunteer moderators. No one who raised complaints was willing to moderate the list. Mike Powell and Marcus Simmons are on the list serve committee. Mary Wurtzel makes a motion to block Joe Harcz from the email list serve. Donna Posont seconded the motion. Several weighed in on this discussion. Thoughts spoken included, we should not block people because we do not like what they are saying. Both sides have freedom of speech. Marcus Simmons says good research is presented by Mr. Harcz and that we should take the bitter with the sweet. Elizabeth Mohnke says personal attacks should stop. The motion does not pass.
> Members at Large Chapter Luncheon at State Convention. The Members at Large Chapter will meet over lunch to hold elections and go over bylaws.
> Old Business: The Training Center may not be available for moving back in until the end of January.
> Adjourn at 9:49.
> 
> 
> 
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