[AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested andexcitednfbmember

Thu Jun 7 19:59:08 UTC 2018

you know, I am learning so much from everyone on this list about things that need to go into these vehicles to make them work for us and this is all so wonderful honestly I'm learning a lot. My next question is what can I, Daniel Perry do to make my voice heard and with whom may I speak about accessibility solutions to put in the vehicles and what ideas can I give? let me have some information please and Donald, you could probably come in very handy here, but what can I do to help be one of the vocal blind people who can help make sure that these vehicles work for all of us even those of us who are totally blind. Have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:25 PM
To: autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org 
Cc: Donald Winiecki 
Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested andexcitednfbmember

Yes. A blind individual could not address a situation visually. 

However, if the car were narrating things that it was 'seeing' and how it was making decisions, the driver would have more information about what is happening. This information might be somewhat analogous to what a sighed driver would have -- sort of like what we get with a screen reader for your computer.  In some circumstances, I can imagine a self-driving car would require decisions to be made by the driver, and if the car was continually updating the driver with relevant information he or she could respond and command the car, rather than expecting that the car is making all the decisions.  (I would expect that there would be settings that allow the car to be more or less `chatty` in this regard. Some individuals would want lots of information, while others would want a functional minimum of information from the car.

For example, if you are driving to work in the morning and encounter heavy traffic or a stoppage, the car could tell you this and ask for your decision on whether to continue the same route, or offer one of several alternative routes.  You would have to tell the car what to do.

Similarly, in the event of any accident of any sort, the car would have to be able to tell the driver what has happened and advise the driver on options, as well as automatically contacting relevant authorities.

What I am getting at, is the idea that no matter who is `driving,` the human will still have to be in the loop somehow, and to be a responsible agent in some circumstances.  So far this has not been emphasized in the development of autonomous vehicles, but I will say that I expect this to become an important feature in the future.

Designing an interface that permits these things will absolutely require active participation from drivers who are blind or visually-impaired.

_don

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Winiecki, Ed.D., Ph.D.
Professor of Ethics & Morality in Professional Practice
Boise State University, College of Engineering
E-mail: dwiniecki at boisestate.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:02 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:

  If the systems were ever to require the driver to take control, 
  this would be impossible for a blind person to safely do.

  Ali

   ----- Original Message -----
  From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles 
  <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
  To: autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:25:44 -0600
  Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested 
  andexcitednfbmember

  As a faculty member in a College of Engineering, my primary
  responsibilities are in the areas of ethics and morality in 
  engineering.
  Autonomous vehicles are a principal interest of mine.

  All of the crashes of autonomous vehicles that have been 
  publicized, have
  been as a result of failures not of single systems, but in the 
  intersection
  of systems in the vehicles. In the case of the Uber crash in 
  Arizona that
  killed a cyclist/pedestrian, the LIDAR (laser radar) 'saw' the 
  person early
  enough to brake and to steer around her.  However, the system 
  that 'makes
  sense of' what the LIDAR detects, was switched to a mode that 
  delayed such
  a reaction -- it was in a very conservative mode where the car's 
  systems
  would have had to be closer to 100% certain of what was being 
  detected by
  the LIDAR before automatically responding.

  In the TESLA crashes, early analysis of the cars' black-boxes 
  indicates
  that systems were attempting to alert the drivers to take control 
  because
  the cars' systems were detecting situations that they were not 
  designed to
  handle. In these cases, the handoff of control from car to human 
  driver was
  missed.

  Looking outside the cars and their technology, Arizona has 
  established the
  most lax regulation on testing of autonomous vehicles, of any 
  state that
  allows such testing. It was as a side-effect of this lax 
  regulation that
  Uber was able to get away with only one safety-driver in the 
  vehicle.
  Other states that allow testing of autonomous vehicles on public 
  roadways
  require two safety-drivers (one behind the wheel ready to take 
  control, and
  one who monitors the car's systems in real time). Uber's history 
  of
  business practices that take large risks may have been a 
  contributing
  factor somehow.

  In the cases of Tesla crashes, we know that marketing information 
  has
  heavily hyped what Tesla calls its 'auto pilot' autonomous 
  driving mode.
  There have even been television commercials with Elon Musk 
  driving/riding a
  car with his hands out the window, yelling and boasting of its 
  autonomous
  capabilities. Compare this with the safety information that comes 
  with the
  cars that cautions drivers to not treat 'auto pilot' as a safe 
  autonomous
  mode.

  A lot of what we are seeing with autonomous vehicles has to do 
  with the
  fact that the companies and consumers are not necessarily 
  prepared to deal
  with the intersection of so many technical and social systems 
  that we are
  suddenly faced with.  In fact, no engineering innovation is ever 
  'only
  technical'. Every engineering innovation pushes small or large 
  impacts on
  us in terms of how we know and behave in the world.  Those who 
  adapt to the
  new limits of technologies are able to benefit, but those who do 
  not
  understand those limits will run the risk of the failure of these 
  multiple
  systems.

  There is absolutely no question in my mind that successful 
  development in
  the technologies of autonomous vehicles will occur.  However, 
  successful
  social adaptation may not be so clearly possible for everyone. 
  This is why
  every stakeholder group -- including and perhaps especially those 
  with
  visual impairments that prevent them from getting a driver's 
  license
  currently -- has to be active in the latter.  This listserv is a 
  touchpoint
  for all of us who are stakeholders in this particular way.  Your
  involvement locally, in your State policy-making branches, and 
  even more
  broadly, is very needed!

  _don

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:50 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <
  autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:

   Probably just because I'm extremely afraid of accidents LOL.

    ----- Original Message -----
   From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles
   <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
   To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"
   <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
   Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:18:18 -0400
   Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
   and excitednfbmember

   me too, but I've been told not to wurry since everyone seems to
   be behind
   them. I think the crashes are all just a part of the process
   morbid as that
   sounds.

   --------------------------------------------------
   From: "Ali via AutonomousVehicles" 
  <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
   Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:13 PM
   To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"
   <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
   Cc: "Ali" <aliherky at gmail.com
   Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
   and excited
   nfbmember

    I have high hopes for the future, but right now am too worried
   about the
    multiple crashes that have been had.

    Ali

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles
   <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
    To: <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
    Date sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 14:59:30 -0400
    Subject: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested and
   excited
    nfbmember

    Hello everyone, my name is Daniel Perry and I found this list
   and
    immediately signed up because I'm extremely excited about the
   prospect of
    autonomous vehicles being a reality as well as we the totally
   blind being
    able to use them. I can't wait to own one as soon as they're
   afordable
    enough for your average blind person to purchase and own. I'll
   be very
    excited to see how Waymo progresses after its launch later on
   this year.
    What's the latest in our efforts to make these vehicles
   accessible to the
    blind? have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from
   you soon.

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