[AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested andexcitednfbmember

Donald Winiecki dwiniecki at handid.org
Thu Jun 7 20:27:39 UTC 2018 

Daniel,

Your interest and your participation is very necessary and very appreciated!

Your best bet is to keep an eye on this listserv, and to connect with NFB
through your local chapter *and* National.  If you're at the National
Convention this year, we can take some time to talk in person.  I also
encourage you to make an effort to connect with Dylan Hedtler-Gaudette.  He
is a Government Affairs Specialist at NFB and probably has the best handle
on NFB's efforts in this area.  If you won't be at the Convention, full
contact information for Dylan is included immediately below.

Dylan Hedtler-Gaudette, Government Affairs Specialist, National Federation
of the Blind
Phone: (410) 659-9314, extension 2210, Email: dhedtler-gaudette at nfb.org

And in the interest of full disclosure, I must say that while I am a member
of NFB and participate through my local chapter in Boise, Idaho, I am not
blind or visually-impaired.  In addition to being a faculty member in the
Boise State College of Engineering, I am a certified braille transcriber
and a consultant on accessible media for organizations in the public
sector.  At present I am working on several research projects that have to
do with accessible media in public sector organizations, and accessible
museum design.

In all of those roles I act as an ally.  I see the efforts of NFB to be
acts in the interest of human rights.  By promoting and teaching toward
independence, NFB is working on critically important issues from a very
powerful position, and your actions only make that power more distributed
and more effective.

Best,

_don

​
​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Winiecki, Ed.D., Ph.D.
*Professor of Ethics & Morality in Professional Practice*
Boise State University, College of Engineering
E-mail: dwiniecki at boisestate.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d​



On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 2:00 PM Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles <
autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> you know, I am learning so much from everyone on this list about things
> that need to go into these vehicles to make them work for us and this is
> all so wonderful honestly I'm learning a lot. My next question is what can
> I, Daniel Perry do to make my voice heard and with whom may I speak about
> accessibility solutions to put in the vehicles and what ideas can I give?
> let me have some information please and Donald, you could probably come in
> very handy here, but what can I do to help be one of the vocal blind people
> who can help make sure that these vehicles work for all of us even those of
> us who are totally blind. Have a wonderful day and I look forward to
> hearing from you soon.
>
> *From:* Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles
> <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:25 PM
> *To:* autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
> *Cc:* Donald Winiecki <dwiniecki at handid.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
> andexcitednfbmember
>
> Yes. A blind individual could not address a situation visually.
>
> However, if the car were narrating things that it was 'seeing' and how it
> was making decisions, the driver would have more information about what is
> happening. This information might be somewhat analogous to what a sighed
> driver would have -- sort of like what we get with a screen reader for your
> computer.  In some circumstances, I can imagine a self-driving car would
> require decisions to be made by the driver, and if the car was continually
> updating the driver with relevant information he or she could respond and
> command the car, rather than expecting that the car is making all the
> decisions.  (I would expect that there would be settings that allow the car
> to be more or less `chatty` in this regard. Some individuals would want
> lots of information, while others would want a functional minimum of
> information from the car.
>
> For example, if you are driving to work in the morning and encounter heavy
> traffic or a stoppage, the car could tell you this and ask for your
> decision on whether to continue the same route, or offer one of several
> alternative routes.  You would have to tell the car what to do.
>
> Similarly, in the event of any accident of any sort, the car would have to
> be able to tell the driver what has happened and advise the driver on
> options, as well as automatically contacting relevant authorities.
>
> What I am getting at, is the idea that no matter who is `driving,` the
> human will still have to be in the loop somehow, and to be a responsible
> agent in some circumstances.  So far this has not been emphasized in the
> development of autonomous vehicles, but I will say that I expect this to
> become an important feature in the future.
>
> Designing an interface that permits these things will absolutely require
> active participation from drivers who are blind or visually-impaired.
>
> _don
> ​
> ​
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Don Winiecki, Ed.D., Ph.D.
> *Professor of Ethics & Morality in Professional Practice*
> Boise State University, College of Engineering
> E-mail: dwiniecki at boisestate.edu
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~d​
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:02 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <
> autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> If the systems were ever to require the driver to take control,
>> this would be impossible for a blind person to safely do.
>>
>> Ali
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Donald Winiecki via AutonomousVehicles
>> <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>> To: autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:25:44 -0600
>> Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
>> andexcitednfbmember
>>
>> As a faculty member in a College of Engineering, my primary
>> responsibilities are in the areas of ethics and morality in
>> engineering.
>> Autonomous vehicles are a principal interest of mine.
>>
>> All of the crashes of autonomous vehicles that have been
>> publicized, have
>> been as a result of failures not of single systems, but in the
>> intersection
>> of systems in the vehicles. In the case of the Uber crash in
>> Arizona that
>> killed a cyclist/pedestrian, the LIDAR (laser radar) 'saw' the
>> person early
>> enough to brake and to steer around her.  However, the system
>> that 'makes
>> sense of' what the LIDAR detects, was switched to a mode that
>> delayed such
>> a reaction -- it was in a very conservative mode where the car's
>> systems
>> would have had to be closer to 100% certain of what was being
>> detected by
>> the LIDAR before automatically responding.
>>
>> In the TESLA crashes, early analysis of the cars' black-boxes
>> indicates
>> that systems were attempting to alert the drivers to take control
>> because
>> the cars' systems were detecting situations that they were not
>> designed to
>> handle. In these cases, the handoff of control from car to human
>> driver was
>> missed.
>>
>> Looking outside the cars and their technology, Arizona has
>> established the
>> most lax regulation on testing of autonomous vehicles, of any
>> state that
>> allows such testing. It was as a side-effect of this lax
>> regulation that
>> Uber was able to get away with only one safety-driver in the
>> vehicle.
>> Other states that allow testing of autonomous vehicles on public
>> roadways
>> require two safety-drivers (one behind the wheel ready to take
>> control, and
>> one who monitors the car's systems in real time). Uber's history
>> of
>> business practices that take large risks may have been a
>> contributing
>> factor somehow.
>>
>> In the cases of Tesla crashes, we know that marketing information
>> has
>> heavily hyped what Tesla calls its 'auto pilot' autonomous
>> driving mode.
>> There have even been television commercials with Elon Musk
>> driving/riding a
>> car with his hands out the window, yelling and boasting of its
>> autonomous
>> capabilities. Compare this with the safety information that comes
>> with the
>> cars that cautions drivers to not treat 'auto pilot' as a safe
>> autonomous
>> mode.
>>
>> A lot of what we are seeing with autonomous vehicles has to do
>> with the
>> fact that the companies and consumers are not necessarily
>> prepared to deal
>> with the intersection of so many technical and social systems
>> that we are
>> suddenly faced with.  In fact, no engineering innovation is ever
>> 'only
>> technical'. Every engineering innovation pushes small or large
>> impacts on
>> us in terms of how we know and behave in the world.  Those who
>> adapt to the
>> new limits of technologies are able to benefit, but those who do
>> not
>> understand those limits will run the risk of the failure of these
>> multiple
>> systems.
>>
>> There is absolutely no question in my mind that successful
>> development in
>> the technologies of autonomous vehicles will occur.  However,
>> successful
>> social adaptation may not be so clearly possible for everyone.
>> This is why
>> every stakeholder group -- including and perhaps especially those
>> with
>> visual impairments that prevent them from getting a driver's
>> license
>> currently -- has to be active in the latter.  This listserv is a
>> touchpoint
>> for all of us who are stakeholders in this particular way.  Your
>> involvement locally, in your State policy-making branches, and
>> even more
>> broadly, is very needed!
>>
>> _don
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 7:50 AM Ali via AutonomousVehicles <
>> autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Probably just because I'm extremely afraid of accidents LOL.
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles
>>  <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>>  To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"
>>  <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>>  Date sent: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 08:18:18 -0400
>>  Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
>>  and excitednfbmember
>>
>>  me too, but I've been told not to wurry since everyone seems to
>>  be behind
>>  them. I think the crashes are all just a part of the process
>>  morbid as that
>>  sounds.
>>
>>  --------------------------------------------------
>>  From: "Ali via AutonomousVehicles"
>> <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:13 PM
>>  To: "autonomous Vehicles Discussion"
>>  <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>>  Cc: "Ali" <aliherky at gmail.com
>>  Subject: Re: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested
>>  and excited
>>  nfbmember
>>
>>   I have high hopes for the future, but right now am too worried
>>  about the
>>   multiple crashes that have been had.
>>
>>   Ali
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>   From: Daniel Perry via AutonomousVehicles
>>  <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>>   To: <autonomousvehicles at nfbnet.org
>>   Date sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 14:59:30 -0400
>>   Subject: [AutonomousVehicles] hello from a very interested and
>>  excited
>>   nfbmember
>>
>>   Hello everyone, my name is Daniel Perry and I found this list
>>  and
>>   immediately signed up because I'm extremely excited about the
>>  prospect of
>>   autonomous vehicles being a reality as well as we the totally
>>  blind being
>>   able to use them. I can't wait to own one as soon as they're
>>  afordable
>>   enough for your average blind person to purchase and own. I'll
>>  be very
>>   excited to see how Waymo progresses after its launch later on
>>  this year.
>>   What's the latest in our efforts to make these vehicles
>>  accessible to the
>>   blind? have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from
>>  you soon.
>>
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