[blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille ReadingRates??

Tue Mar 20 21:02:46 UTC 2012

I will sign that
Denise

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I'd be willing to help start a petition.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/20/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Wow. Expecting a Braille reader to read half as fast as their sighted
> > peers at any grade level is ridiculous. The fact this is coming from
> > an authority, a school for the blind, is just plain unacceptable. The
> > end.
> > Arielle - blind adult who reads Braille at 300 wpm because she has
> > been reading Braille since age 4 and was always expected to read at
> > the same level as her sighted peers.
> >
> > On 3/20/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> Hello chantel,
> >> While I agree that knowing where the Texas School For The Blind came up
> >> with
> >> their nonsensical reading rates might be useful, you have already
> >> described
> >> how you believe the next meeting will go with the school personnel. I
> >> agree
> >> with you. It comes down to an argument like "we choose these reading
> >> standards and you don't think we've made a good choice. But, we're the
> >> experts and so are the TX people. So, while we acknowledge your
> >> displeasure,
> >> this is what we're going to do." You can argue with them back and forth
> >> for
> >> months, not sign the IEP - so they'll just keep using the old one -
> >> question
> >> their basis for the decision, which makes the TVI feel threatened and
> >> dislike you, and on it goes...for months and months. Meanwhile, nothing
> >> changes in the expectations or reading education being given to your
> son.
> >>
> >> Or, you can try what I've started doing whenever I go as parent advocate
> >> to
> >> IEP meetings. I take some videos of blind children doing whatever it is
> >> that
> >> the school district people are saying can't be done by blind children.
> >> They
> >> can't argue when they see several different blind children doing it. I
> >> usually introduce the videos by saying something like "now I'd like to
> >> share
> >> something that I'm sure everyone will be really please to see. I know
> >> that
> >> we all want what's best for (name child) and this should enable us to
> >> agree
> >> on what that best will look like for the next year." It's hard for
> >> teachers
> >> to say "well, we don't think that doing what these children are doing is
> >> best." Because they want each child to reach the highest outcomes
> >> possible.
> >> Their problem is that they don't believe that blind children, or adults,
> >> can
> >> reach outcomes on pa with the sighted. Videos usually work to raise
> their
> >> expectations. It's usually easier to get goals changed after the entire
> >> IEP
> >> team has seen that it's perfectly possible for your son to attain them.
> >> It
> >> takes away from the mistique and the "expertism" ascribed to the TVI by
> >> the
> >> rest of the team. She is then in the position of having to convince the
> >> whole team why, when everyone just saw it was possible, it won't be
> >> possible
> >> for your son.
> >>
> >> Denise may already have some videos of her students reading braille at
> >> age-appropriate rates. Or, if not, I'm sure she can direct you to some.
> I
> >> think this will smooth the way for lifting their expectations of your
> >> son.
> >> As an aside, I would also start having your son read at home for a set
> >> amount of time every night with a view to increasing his reading speed.
> >> Rewards are a great motivational tool as his age.
> >>
> >> Keep us posted and please share the links to any great videos you track
> >> down. there are so many parents fighting this fight all over the
> country.
> >> I
> >> think we need to petition The Texas School For The Blind to recant on
> >> these
> >> reading standards because they sure aren't realistic. I'm an adult blind
> >> reader and I read in excess of 400 words a minute. At age eight I was
> >> reading above my sighted peers; I know this because when tested at age
> >> six
> >> my mum reports that I was reading at 9-years and 8 months as determined
> >> by
> >> the sighted reading test norms, which they used because they didn't have
> >> any
> >> for braille readers. Ahhh! How things change and how they stay the same.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Heather
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Chantel Alberhasky
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:57 AM
> >> To: Dr. Denise M Robinson ; Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind
> >> children)
> >> Subject: Re: [blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille
> >> ReadingRates??
> >>
> >> Denise, I share your thoughts re Braille reading rates and will insist
> on
> >> using the print reading rates as the norm for Drake.  Again, I am
> >> fortunate
> >> to have a state law which I believe requires Drake's fluency rate to be
> >> the
> >> comparable to his sighted peers print reading rate.
> >>
> >>
> >> At last year's IEP meeting we touched upon the fluency rate and I
> already
> >> know the administration's position on reading rates which is Braille is
> a
> >> slow reading medium, you can't use norms for print reading rates and my
> >> expectations are too high.   Drake's TVBI is great but I think she also
> >> subscribes to the belief that Braille is a slow reading medium - she
> just
> >> started with the district this past year and used to work for the
> >> university
> >> teaching future TVBI.
> >>
> >> Based upon the evaluation I think the  district is going to argue the
> >> norms
> >> sighted by the Texas School for the Blind is the norms they are going to
> >> follow. So I would like to know the Texas School for the Blind's
> >> authority
> >> for determining its norm rates. Did it reply upon other studies?  If so,
> >> which ones?  If it did its own study, how do I find it?  Is its study
> >> peer-reviewed?     These are questions I can pose to the district but I
> >> was
> >> hoping someone would have some insight re the assessment and reading
> >> rates.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >> Chantel
> >>
> >>
> >> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
> >> 419 Boonville Avenue
> >> Springfield, MO 65806
> >> 417.865.4444
> >>
> >> The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys
> >> tonotify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not
> >> asecure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or
> >> byyou
> >> may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as itgoes
> >> from
> >> me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in
> >> ourcommunication
> >> may intercept our communications by improperly accessingyour computer or
> >> my
> >> computer or even some computer unconnected to eitherof us which the
> >> e-mail
> >> passed through. I am communicating to you viae-mail because you have
> >> consented to receive communications via thismedium. If you change your
> >> mind
> >> and want future communications to besent in a different fashion, please
> >> let
> >> me know AT ONCE.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
> >> To: Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com>; "Blind Kid Mailing
> >> List,
> >> (for parents of blind children)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:34 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [blindkid] TX School for Blind Assessment Braille Reading
> >> Rates??
> >>
> >>
> >> Chantel
> >>
> >> Basically you have researchers looking at what kids are doing and then
> >> they
> >> figure out the norms for what is actually going on--then they come up
> >> with
> >> reading rates--some research--
> >> http://www.braille.org/papers/jvib0696/vb960312.htm
> >> However, reading rates of course depend on the expectations surrounding
> >> the
> >> child. If everyone expects this child to read slowly---in general they
> >> will.
> >> If however, the same standards are applied to a blind child as sighted
> >> child, you will see the blind child reach the same goals. Of course
> these
> >> expectations must be met with a highly qualified teacher of the blind
> who
> >> can teach to the standards that are set for everyone else. Depending on
> >> the
> >> teacher's skills typically depends on how far the child will go or not
> >> go.
> >>
> >> I use the same standards with my students as everyone else. If I get
> them
> >> and can start them at the same age as everyone else is learning the
> >> skills,
> >> they can stay with them or exceed them--esp when it comes to technology.
> >> If
> >> I get them later, it takes a lot more work, but if before middle school,
> >> they can reach these standards also typically by the time they graduate.
> >> If
> >> above middle school it becomes a lot harder, basically because there is
> >> so
> >> much bad thought in their own heads about what they can do. If you can
> >> get
> >> them over that and they work really hard they can get close and some
> >> surpass
> >> any low expectations that were set long ago.
> >>
> >> The longer you wait...the harder it is to change those negative thoughts
> >> about blind skills and achievement. You are right in fighting the bad
> >> thought. Tell them you wish for your child to follow Jerry Johns
> >> norms--which are the standards the sighted kids use, versus the low
> norms
> >> of
> >> that assessment kit THEY created. Many people have created their own.
> >>
> >> See link for Jerry Johns literacy norms and let them know these are the
> >> norms you want them to follow---the leading literacy expert in the
> field:
> >> http://www.yourtechvision.com/content/standards-reading-speed
> >>
> >> Denise
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Chantel Alberhasky
> >> <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just received the Braille skills evaluation report for my 8 year old
> >> son.
> >> Drake is in 2nd grade.  His oral Braille reading rate for second grade
> >> level
> >> is 50 WPM,  36 WPM for 3rd grade level and 34 for 4th trade level. The
> >> report goes on to say that Drake is "on track to achieve the norms as
> >> identified by the Texas School for the Blind (TSBVI) Assessment Kit
> >> Braille
> >> Reading Rates."   The Texas School for the Blind's braille reading rate
> >> for
> >> 3rd grade is only 51 WPM and for college it is only 115 WPM!  For print
> >> reading a 3rd grader should be reading 110 WPM.  So college Braille
> >> readers
> >> should be reading at the same level as a third grade student?!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Can anyone give me information on the Texas School for the Blind
> >>> Assessment
> >>>
> >>>Kit Braille Reading Rates?  How did they arrive at these rates as being
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>"norm" for the various grade levels?   I know there hasn't been any
> >>> recent
> >>>studies that would indicate the reading rates for Braille so how did
> >>> Texas
> >>>School for the Blind come up with these very low rates?
> >>>
> >>>I will of course be arguing these rates are much too low.  I also have a
> >>>great state law I will rely upon which requires schools to provide
> >>>instruction so that a child can communicate effectively and efficiently
> >>> in
> >>>Braille at a level commensurate with his sighted peers of comparable
> >>> grade
> >>>level and intellectual functioning.   To rely upon the Texas School for
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>Blind reading rates would be inconsistent with our state law.
> >>>
> >>>In any event, any information anyone can give me regarding TX School for
> >>>the Blind Assessment Braille Reading rates would be appreciated.
> >>>
> >>>Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
> >>>419 Boonville Avenue
> >>>Springfield, MO 65806
> >>>417.865.4444
> >>>
> >>>The Missouri Bar Disciplinary Counsel requires all Missouri attorneys
> >>>tonotify all recipients of e-mail that (1) e-mail communication is not
> >>>asecure method of communication, (2) any e-mail that is sent to you or
> >>>byyou may be copied and held by various computers it passes through as
> >>>itgoes from me to you or vice versa, (3) persons not participating in
> >>>ourcommunication may intercept our communications by improperly
> >>>accessingyour computer or my computer or even some computer unconnected
> >>> to
> >>>eitherof us which the e-mail passed through. I am communicating to you
> >>>viae-mail because you have consented to receive communications via
> >>>thismedium. If you change your mind and want future communications to
> >>>besent in a different fashion, please let me know AT ONCE.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>________________________________
> >>> From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
> >>>To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> >>><blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> >>>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 10:51 AM
> >>>Subject: Re: [blindkid] IQ testing
> >>>
> >>>The WWJIII is now in a braille format to access blind children and is
> >>>adapted appropriately--You can get it from APH
> >>>Denise
> >>>
> >>>On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Patricia <bcsarah.fan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> As a blind aspiring counsellor who has my Bachelors in psychology, I
> >>>> am familiar with these IQ tests and have always been curious, has
> >>>> there been any attempt to make these tests accessible to blind and
> >>>> visually impaired children? Or is the answer just "they're not, and
> >>>> that's the way it is." I don't expect a definitive answer on this as
> >>>> I'm sure no one here would know, but it's always been one of those
> >>>> things that I've been curious about.
> >>>>
> >>>> Patricia
> >>>>
> >>>> On 3/19/12, Tom and Deb OConnor <toc6642 at charter.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Is a vision impairment a valid reason not to give a child a
> >>>> > "complete"
> >>>> > Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-fourth edition?  The final
> >>>> > conclusion was that it would be inappropriate?  Given 5 subtests
> >>>> > only.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Thanks for any information on this.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Tom & Debbie O'Connor
> >>>> > toc6642 at charter.net
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > blindkid mailing list
> >>>> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> >>>> > blindkid:
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/bcsarah.fan%40gmail.com
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> blindkid mailing list
> >>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> blindkid:
> >>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Denise
> >>>
> >>>Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
> >>>CEO, TechVision, LLC
> >>>Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
> >>>509-674-1853
> >>>
> >>>Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
> >>>keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
> >>>
> >>>"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
> >>> is
> >>>doing it." --Chinese Proverb
> >>>
> >>>Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are
> >>> incredibly
> >>>slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
> >>>imagination.
> >>>--Albert Einstein
> >>>
> >>>It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
> >>>--Walt Disney
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>blindkid mailing list
> >>>blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>blindkid:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/chantel%40alberhaskylaw.com
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>blindkid mailing list
> >>>blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>blindkid:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Denise
> >>
> >> Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
> >> CEO, TechVision, LLC
> >> Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
> >> 509-674-1853
> >>
> >> Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
> >> keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
> >>
> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
> >> is
> >> doing it." --Chinese Proverb
> >>
> >> Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are
> >> incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful
> >> beyond imagination.
> >> --Albert Einstein
> >>
> >> It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
> >> --Walt Disney
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindkid mailing list
> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindkid:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindkid mailing list
> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> blindkid:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
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> blindkid:
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>

-- 
 Denise

Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
CEO, TechVision, LLC
Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision
509-674-1853

Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons all done with
keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com

"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it." --Chinese Proverb

Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly
slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond
imagination.
--Albert Einstein

It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
--Walt Disney