[blindlaw] petition

Thu Jan 14 17:19:30 UTC 2010

I mean both newly blind persons and persons who have been blind all their 
lives
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition


>I was referring to those people who have had many opportunities to learn 
>what they needed to do and chose not to avail themselves of the options 
>available to them. As we know there are some people who will use their 
>disabilities in ways that are opportunistic. I know that having been born 
>blind it is sometimes easy to forget the impact of adjustment that someone 
>goes through when they have lost vision.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>
>
>> Are we talking about persons with brand new blindness?  I hope not. 
>> People
>> can't start out knowing everything to do...there is a process.  After
>> awhile, you shouldn't need that but at the beginning there is quite a bit 
>> of
>> psychological retraining.  So, I hope we aren't talking about the 
>> beginning
>> stages...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:01 AM
>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>> dthat's a valid point as many consumers expect their hands to be held 
>> every
>> step of the way and beyond.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve P. Deeley" <stevep.deeley at insightbb.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>
>>
>>>I would need to see some empirical data on the effectiveness of NFB 
>>>centers
>>
>>>compared to those run by the states or non-NFB centers.  Some of the
>>>hard-luck consumers that states must work with would never be able to 
>>>make
>>>it in a NFB run center.
>>> Steve
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 5:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>
>>>
>>>> The argument could also be made that by using NFB rehab centers the
>>>> quality
>>>> of the program and the long-term benefit both to the consumer and the
>>>> state
>>>> is more cost effective. I wonder how cost effecdtive some of the 
>>>> non-NFB
>>>> programs are in comparison. States tned to waste a lot of money by
>>>> maintaining the status quo.
>>>> Chuck
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 8:35 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What aspect are you speaking of...NFB paying for people to go or for 
>>>>> the
>>>>> state to pay for people to go?  Here in Texas, the state agency is
>>>>> always
>>>>> trying to get people to go.  At least they were for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I would argue that there is always room in the budget if states
>>>>> would
>>>>> crack down on the way state workers are spending the money.  It's been
>>>>> my
>>>>> experience that the answer is usually no.  So I'm not sure why there 
>>>>> is
>>>>> no
>>>>> money for anything.  Just my thoughts from what I've experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 9:40 AM
>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>> With the budgets at this time, we can't afford it.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "WB" <mruniverse08 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> How about we not have only NFB facilities.  I am a member of the 
>>>>>> local
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> chapter but I don't believe their whole philosophy about blindness.
>>>>>> There
>>>>>> are some great points and there are some very strange ones.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that the NFB should pay but the fact is that they're not. 
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> tied in with many of the state agencies across the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, if a person needs to get the state to pay for that institution,
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> they should go for it.  Rather than state agencies wasting money on
>>>>>> frivolous things, they need to reorient their budget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>> On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve P. Deeley
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:33 PM
>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want blind individuals from those states having a blindness 
>>>>>> center,
>>>>>> funded by tax payer dollars, to be able to attend NFB centers at 
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> tax payers expense.  That is just not right or fiscally possible.. 
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB wants these clients from states with blindness centers in place 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> attend NFB centers, they should establish scholarships or pay the way
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> NFB funding.  The budgets' of states are stretched to the limit.
>>>>>> States
>>>>>> with blindness centers should not pay for clients to attend NFB
>>>>>> centers.
>>>>>> There is a limited amount of resources in their budgets.  That is 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> saying a state agency should have to fund a education for a consumer 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> attend Harvard if the student could qualify.  Again, there limitedf
>>>>>> resources to work with in these cases.  If a consumer wants to attend 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> private college, they need to pay the difference or get scholarships 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> makeup the difference from what a state agency is able to pay.
>>>>>> Usually,
>>>>>> state agencies will pay for blind consumers to attend in-state
>>>>>> institutions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want an expensive college or an out of state college, you must 
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> the difference.  The same should go for the consumer attending a NFB
>>>>>> center
>>>>>> if his or her state has a blindness center.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "James Pepper" <b75205 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go down to your local member of Congress office and complain to them
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> person.  Thats how you do things.  Everything else is really not 
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have to talk to the staff tell them what is going on.  Tell them
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> doesn't work explain it to them because they have no idea why things
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> work, they are not in your shoes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 2:14 PM, <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There have been allegations that in some states the state agency 
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> want to pay for residents to go to out of state rehab centers such 
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> NFB centers and rehab clients have had to request hearings and 
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> to be have the fees paid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Dubin" <mdubin at pobox.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:26 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   The petition reads: "Blind consumers working with federal state
>>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>>> for the blind and Visually Impaired should be allowed to attend
>>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>>> Federation of the blind training centers and they should be fully
>>>>>>>>> paid
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> by said agencies in the U.S.A. Please rewrite...."
>>>>>>>>> Would someone please explain to me what the problem is that is 
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> experienced?
>>>>>>>>> How are they being denied the right to attend NFB Training 
>>>>>>>>> Centers?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marc Dubin, Esq.
>>>>>>>>> Director of Advocacy, Center for Independent Living of South 
>>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>>> mdubin at pobox.com
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: 305-896-3000
>>>>>>>>> Fax: 877-731-3030
>>>>>>>>> www.victimswithdisabilities.org
>>>>>>>>> Chair, Florida Bar Disability Law Committee
>>>>>>>>> http://disabilitylawcommittee.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>> Former Senior Trial Attorney, U.S. Department of Justice 1993-2005
>>>>>>>>> www.ada.gov
>>>>>>>>> Former Special Counsel, Office on Violence Against Women, USDOJ
>>>>>>>>> www.ovw.usdoj.gov/overview.htm
>>>>>>>>> Founder & Executive Director, CAVNET    www.cavnet.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 3:08 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, petitions put forth on Internet sites like this 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>> if any real effect with Congress. It is much more effective to use 
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>> of actual letters that can electronically be submitted to members 
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> Congress and/or state legislators. Working with many groups as a
>>>>>>>>> consultant
>>>>>>>>> on legislative issues I have raised this issue previously. While
>>>>>>>>> consumers
>>>>>>>>> definitely need a choice and self empowerment to attend facilities
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> choice for rehabilitation the Rehab Act of 1973 or any other
>>>>>>>>> legislation
>>>>>>>>> will not get rewritten using this format.
>>>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr. Alexander Scott Kaiser"
>>>>>>>>> <MisterAlexanderScottKaiser10301990 at gmx.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 12:43 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] petition
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> please read and sign
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2768/rewriting-us-rehabilitation-act-1973
>>>>>> /
>>>>>>>>>>     Quick
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mdubin%40pobox.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>>>>>> al.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b75205%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> 01/11/10
>>>>>> 07:35:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mruniverse08%40gma
>>>>>> il.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
>>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stevep.deeley%40in
>>>>> sightbb.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
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>>>>> il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> blindlaw:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
>> al.net
>>>>
>>>>
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>> sightbb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>> al.net
>>
>>
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>
>
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