[blindlaw] LSAT Logic Games

Thu May 14 12:00:57 UTC 2015

I don't think anyone can truly comment about whether the logic games test what they are supposed to test, but I can tell you that I know at least one completely blind friend who scored a 170 on the LSAT. That is a top score. I don't know what strategies she used, but I at least know it is possible for a completely blind taker to do very well. I would say just keep practicing. 

Kristi

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 13, 2015, at 9:54 PM, Nicole Askins via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good evening all, these are all great suggestions and I will take all of
> this under advisement. However, I have a great deal of accommodations
> already provided including a scribe, youth of my laptop with zoom text and
> a CCTV. My question simply was about the grouping games as they seem to be
> more complex. I wanted to know if there was a better way to approach these
> games. I have no trouble with ordering games nor do I have trouble with any
> other section of the test. I simply wanted to know if other low vision
> people had equal trouble. I guess, my question really is, or the logic
> games fair and do they really assess a law students ability or just their
> disability.
> On May 13, 2015 9:26 PM, "Michal Nowicki via blindlaw" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Mike,
>> 
>> 138 is definitely not a good score.  To give you and everyone else on this
>> list a better idea of how bad it is, the national average is 151, and the
>> median score at DePaul University College of Law, which is ranked 121 in
>> the
>> country, is 154.  Therefore, while the LSAT isn't the sole admission
>> factor,
>> you really need to get at least into the low 150s to have a fighting chance
>> of acceptance to a decent law school.
>> 
>> As far as I know, there aren't any LSAT tutors who specialize in teaching
>> the blind.  When I took the Kaplan class, I was hoping my teacher would
>> help
>> me, but he was able to provide only general guidance.  Fortunately, I
>> figured out how to tackle each game type, though I could never get through
>> all four games in the allotted time.
>> 
>> Please keep in mind that the LSAT is a skills-based test.  As a result, the
>> trouble you are having may mean that you have a hard time spotting key
>> deductions.  If you wish, please feel free to contact me off-list at
>> mnowicki4 at iCloud.com to discuss your unique situation.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Michal
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mike
>> mcglashon via blindlaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 7:17 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: mike mcglashon
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Logic Games
>> 
>> Hi Guys:
>> 
>> I have been following this thread and I too am taking the LSAT in June.  I
>> took it in February and did 138.  I thought that was fabulous but I guess
>> the law schools don't like that score.  As far as the logic games, I found
>> that even though I tried to use excel, braille display, and also braille
>> writers, etc, I found that II still was getting it all jumbled up in my
>> mind; I've been practicing since last january and I haven't gotten any
>> better at it.  I think what Nicole and I are looking for is very specific
>> followable instructions to tackle such games.  Are there tutors out there
>> who specialize in teaching blind persons these puzzles?  someone like a
>> shrink who understands how the human brain works?  I am actually
>> considering
>> just guessing "d" for all the game questions; I'm bound to hit on a couple
>> of them just by chance.  My theory is that the logic reasoning is two
>> sections of the test; therefore between those two sections and the reading
>> section that should get me at least 140 or slightly better and then let the
>> chips fall where they may.
>> 
>> What do you guys think of this?  Is it possible that since totally blind
>> persons from birth can only visualize in two dimensions, this is the
>> detriment when it comes to these games?
>> 
>> Please advise.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kelby Carlson via blindlaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 6:51 PM
>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Kelby Carlson
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Logic Games
>> 
>> Nicole,
>> 
>> Michal is right about this.  As much as you may hate to hear this, it's
>> probably better to hold off on taking the test until September.  I would
>> actually begin the accommodation process right now; it is literally never
>> too early to start in this case.
>> You'll need to request absolutely every single accommodation you think you
>> might need, and in very specific detail.  I made this mistake and was not
>> able to use the accommodations for the logic games that I had planned.
>> Fortunately I was still able to obtain a reasonable score, but in many ways
>> I was lucky.
>> 
>> As for suggestions, I would echo Michal's.  I also had some luck using
>> symbols on a braille display.  IT will take a good deal of experimentation
>> and practice.  Use lots of practice tests with different problems and
>> groupings.  See if things click, and don't be afraid to try different
>> methods with different sorts of sets.
>> 
>> K.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Michal Nowicki via blindlaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org Date sent: Wed, 13 May
>> 2015 18:10:54 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] LSAT Logic Games
>> 
>> Hi Nicole,
>> 
>> When I took the LSAT last year, I used a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet to
>> sketch out the games.  I chose Excel over tactile objects because I quickly
>> discovered that it would be much easier to manipulate the various
>> conditions
>> that way.
>> 
>> For grouping games, I recommend you use columns for the groups, as those
>> are
>> the stable elements in the game, and that you place the members of each
>> group in the cells below the appropriate group headings.  I also recommend
>> a
>> separate row for all the rules.  The key to success on logic games is
>> working out a strategy that works for you, so feel free to experiment.
>> 
>> You can be certain that LSAC will not let you skip logic games, so don't
>> even try taking the easy way out.  In fact, I was very fortunate to get all
>> the accommodations I requested, as many blind test takers had major
>> difficulties getting the accommodations they needed; LSAC does not like to
>> work with test takers with disabilities to insure that their needs are met.
>> With that in mind, I'm afraid you won't be able to take the LSAT in June,
>> since you don't yet know how to tackle logic games and thus are not in a
>> position to request specific accommodations.  You can't, for instance,
>> decide that Excel works best for you a week before the test and show up on
>> the day of the exam expecting to be allowed to use the program; each
>> accommodation must be preapproved by LSAC well in advance, and the process
>> for requesting accommodations can be very time-consuming.  As a matter of
>> fact, the deadline for the June test may have already passed.
>> 
>> Please don't hesitate to contact me off-list at mnowicki4 at iCloud.com if
>> you
>> have further questions.  Good luck!
>> 
>> Michal
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindlaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
>> Askins via blindlaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 4:05 PM
>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Nicole Askins
>> Subject: [blindlaw] LSAT Logic Games
>> 
>> Greetings all,
>> 
>> 
>> I am new to this list serve and would like to thank valarie for giving me
>> information about it.
>> I have a question, I am scheduled to take the LSAT in June and can not seem
>> to get a handle on the Grouping Games.  since some of you may have
>> experience with this test, please advise.
>> 1.  Did anyone have this section of the test omitted?
>> 2.  how did you create the diagrams if not omitted?
>> 
>> Thank you for your time and attention to this matter Nicole Askins
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