[Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to read?

Fri Aug 7 15:15:10 UTC 2009

I think braille has its uses, and they may be different for each person and 
circumstance. I was one of the people that learned braille early at about 5, 
when everyone else was learning print. However, my skills have lapsed mostly 
due to the fact that text-to-speech has proven much more efficient, and far 
less costly. However, if I needed to do mathematics, or give presentations 
requiring specific facts/figures, I think braille would be necessary for me. 
I would never read a novel in braille; I think text to speech is a natural 
fit for this indeavor.

When I began programming, the only available interface was the braille 
display. However, since the advent of gui screen readers, I find that coding 
via speech is mor eefficient. I do think that reading someone else's code 
(always difficult, no matter if you can see or not) is more easily done via 
braille. I'd even say that a full page  is perhaps the best for doing this 
as it shows you indentation and allows skipping around quickly.

 There are many people who loose their sight later in life, and for those 
folks I think learning braille would be a huge challenge. Fingertips lose 
their sensativity as one ages, and the brain becomes far less maluable.  I 
guess its all in how much effort you want to put in, and exactly what you 
are trying to accomplish.  Mathew seems to have been able to use speech 
while giving a presentation; I know that I could never do this, so for me 
braille would be a necessity in this situation.

I think one thing everyone seems to agree on in this thread is that braille 
is essential for those who do lots of thathematics. Also, a full-page 
display whith the ability to do graphics would open a world of new 
possibilities.  I hope this happens in my lifetime, but I have my doubts. 
Its a difficult problem, and the money to make it happen just isn't there.

-- Rich

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to 
read?

> One other thing: You have the advantage of having learned to read print.
> Blind children who are forced to rely exclusively on text-to-speech will
> have difficulties with becoming familiar with the printed word. Spelling 
> and
> punctuation can suffer, and a spell-checker can't always fix everything.
> This is why the Braille coin campaign targets the literacy of young
> children.
>
> The problem you are noticing with delivery of your messages is something
> that happens across the board on NFB lislts.
>
> Angie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Matthew_2010
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 1:33 AM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
> read?
>
> Wow, very nice message. I can definitely see your perspective since your
> needs are similar but different, but I still feel reading Braille has
> inherent physical limitations. Some believe a Braille reader can read as
> fast as a sighted person, but I have noticed this is only or primarily 
> true
> for information that has already been learned. If a blind reader is given
> unfamiliar text to read their proficiency drops and not necessarily due to
> an inability to read Braille but rather the slower method of symbol
> processing in using the fingers as opposed to the eyes that can see a
> 12-character word and instantly recognize it rather than waiting for the
> finger to cross the length of the brailed word. This fault in the 
> processing
>
> of information gathered from the cutaneous senses accounts for delay in
> reading proficiency. Is the ability to learn Braille important, I guess
> there are its uses. Is 100% proficiency necessary, I don't think so--not
> even 50%. ...I ordered a book from RFBD in regards to how to process
> information from textbooks faster with more comprehension, and I found I
> couldn't use it because it was asking me to do things I couldn't do 
> quickly
> such as the SQ3R method which demands the user quickly familiarize him or
> herself with chapter headings and bolded terms and such but this would be
> very time consuming if one read using Braille.
>
> Matthew
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
> read?
>
>
>> Hi Matthew,
>>
>> I find the method you describe awkward because I feel that it interferes
>> with my ability to perceive / connect with the audience. It sounds like 
>> it
>> worked very well for you, and that's great. But I like being able to 
>> focus
>> all of my auditory attention on the group I'm addressing. I'm by no means
>> suggesting that you should learn Braille before giving a presentation; 
>> I'm
>> just pointing out some problems that I had with this method. I used
>> embossed
>> and refreshable Braille when I taught calculus and other math classes
>> during
>> grad school. It felt like this allowed me to engage more with my 
>> students.
>>
>> You referred to the "slow reading and awkward pauses" of many Braille
>> readers. Rather than highlighting a deficiency that is inherent in the
>> modality, I think that these problems demonstrate the issues with our
>> educational system. I can read pretty rapidly myself, but again, I was
>> lucky. I received daily Braille instruction from the time I was four.
>>
>> The fact that I consider myself "lucky" to have received daily reading
>> instruction in primary school is the problem.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Matthew_2010
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:59 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>> read?
>>
>> Now that I've had a little bit of time to think about this a bit more, I
>> have indeed used my Braille display a couple of times. For a period of
>> time
>> I had to update a group of colleagues regarding business matters. I would
>> have improvised the presentations but the numbers and stats were very
>> important so I decided to begin using my portable Braille display. It was
>> very frustrating and time consuming to navigate through the Braille 
>> during
>> my presentations as well as when asked questions. Granted I could have
>> improved but this meant lots of practice reading Braille, and I simply
>> don't
>>
>> have the time for that. My solution? I simply typed up my notes in
>> notepad,
>> I transferred them to my note taker, and I attached an earpiece to the
>> note
>> taker. I was able to use the text reading commands on my note taker to
>> quickly read, navigate, and search for all information requested. That
>> single $10 earpiece I borrowed from my cell phone saved me hours of time
>> learning how to read Braille as well as helping me scan all requested
>> information during presentations. The key in my success was making the
>> sentences to be read brief and inserting page breaks at points in the 
>> text
>> where I would naturally pause anyways. These short phrases gave me plenty
>> of
>>
>> time to store the information in short term memory from line to line
>> therefore making my presentations flow without slow reading and awkward
>> pauses as many Braille readers often do. I think this supports my
>> contention
>>
>> that Braille is a must for all under all circumstances is simply not 100%
>> true.
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Matthew_2010" <Matthew_2010 at charter.net>
>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 7:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>> read?
>>
>>
>>> Is it possible that 70% of blind people not reading raile is not due to
>>> lack of proper instruction or incompetence and has more to do with the
>>> need simply not being there? I have a Braille display and have never had
>>> even the slightest desire to use it. I really don't think I'm missing
>>> out,
>>
>>> but maybe some of you can help me out by informing me of what I'm 
>>> missing
>>> out on. My primary reason for not using my Braille display is that 
>>> taking
>>> my fingers off my keyboard to read the display seems like a time
>>> consuming
>>
>>> additional step to what I can quickly do with the jaws cursor and alike.
>>> I
>>
>>> didn't lose my vision till I was an adult so maybe these posts are more
>>> relevant to the issue of blind children first learning to read.
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jason White" <jason at jasonjgw.net>
>>> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>>> read?
>>>
>>>
>>>>> A braille display will give you instant access to a world of
>>>>> information through your computer. You don't need to wait for anyone
>>>>> to transcribe the text for you, it's there for the taking. I can't
>>>>> think of a bigger incentive to get a child to learn braille!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree. If I had to name the single greatest braille-related invention
>>>> of the
>>>> last 50 years, it would have to be the refreshable braille display. I
>>>> know
>>>> high-speed braille embossers are also important and valuable, but I
>>>> think
>>>> refreshable braille is the technology that really stretches the bounds
>>>> of
>>
>>>> what
>>>> is possible.
>>>>
>>>> The Perkins brailler and similar devices are of course fundamental,
>>>> dating
>>>> from earlier in the twentieth century.
>>>>
>>>> There is a real need for further advances in the design of braille
>>>> display
>>>> hardware, leading, ideally, to devices that are not only more
>>>> affordable,
>>
>>>> but
>>>> capable of presenting a full page of text and graphics. This would make
>>>> many
>>>> mathematics applications much easier.
>>>>> I should point out that some people have an irrational fear of
>>>>> braille based on the notion that it makes them look more blind in
>>>>> the eyes of the public. So money isn't the only factor.
>>>>
>>>> What makes this worse (and I'll take your word for it - I've never met
>>>> any
>>>> such person) is that it involves internalizing negative stereotypes
>>>> about
>>>> blindness. this list isn't the place to discuss those issues, however.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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