[Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to read?

Fri Aug 7 16:07:48 UTC 2009

Rich,

I think you have succinctly explained the need for Braille while also 
explaining that it is not always essential. Great job!

Matthew

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rich Caloggero" <rjc at MIT.EDU>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" 
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to 
read?

>
> I think braille has its uses, and they may be different for each person 
> and circumstance. I was one of the people that learned braille early at 
> about 5, when everyone else was learning print. However, my skills have 
> lapsed mostly due to the fact that text-to-speech has proven much more 
> efficient, and far less costly. However, if I needed to do mathematics, or 
> give presentations requiring specific facts/figures, I think braille would 
> be necessary for me. I would never read a novel in braille; I think text 
> to speech is a natural fit for this indeavor.
>
>
> When I began programming, the only available interface was the braille 
> display. However, since the advent of gui screen readers, I find that 
> coding via speech is mor eefficient. I do think that reading someone 
> else's code (always difficult, no matter if you can see or not) is more 
> easily done via braille. I'd even say that a full page  is perhaps the 
> best for doing this as it shows you indentation and allows skipping around 
> quickly.
>
> There are many people who loose their sight later in life, and for those 
> folks I think learning braille would be a huge challenge. Fingertips lose 
> their sensativity as one ages, and the brain becomes far less maluable.  I 
> guess its all in how much effort you want to put in, and exactly what you 
> are trying to accomplish.  Mathew seems to have been able to use speech 
> while giving a presentation; I know that I could never do this, so for me 
> braille would be a necessity in this situation.
>
> I think one thing everyone seems to agree on in this thread is that 
> braille is essential for those who do lots of thathematics. Also, a 
> full-page display whith the ability to do graphics would open a world of 
> new possibilities.  I hope this happens in my lifetime, but I have my 
> doubts. Its a difficult problem, and the money to make it happen just 
> isn't there.
>
> -- Rich
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'" 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to 
> read?
>
>
>> One other thing: You have the advantage of having learned to read print.
>> Blind children who are forced to rely exclusively on text-to-speech will
>> have difficulties with becoming familiar with the printed word. Spelling 
>> and
>> punctuation can suffer, and a spell-checker can't always fix everything.
>> This is why the Braille coin campaign targets the literacy of young
>> children.
>>
>> The problem you are noticing with delivery of your messages is something
>> that happens across the board on NFB lislts.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>> On
>> Behalf Of Matthew_2010
>> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 1:33 AM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>> read?
>>
>> Wow, very nice message. I can definitely see your perspective since your
>> needs are similar but different, but I still feel reading Braille has
>> inherent physical limitations. Some believe a Braille reader can read as
>> fast as a sighted person, but I have noticed this is only or primarily 
>> true
>> for information that has already been learned. If a blind reader is given
>> unfamiliar text to read their proficiency drops and not necessarily due 
>> to
>> an inability to read Braille but rather the slower method of symbol
>> processing in using the fingers as opposed to the eyes that can see a
>> 12-character word and instantly recognize it rather than waiting for the
>> finger to cross the length of the brailed word. This fault in the 
>> processing
>>
>> of information gathered from the cutaneous senses accounts for delay in
>> reading proficiency. Is the ability to learn Braille important, I guess
>> there are its uses. Is 100% proficiency necessary, I don't think so--not
>> even 50%. ...I ordered a book from RFBD in regards to how to process
>> information from textbooks faster with more comprehension, and I found I
>> couldn't use it because it was asking me to do things I couldn't do 
>> quickly
>> such as the SQ3R method which demands the user quickly familiarize him or
>> herself with chapter headings and bolded terms and such but this would be
>> very time consuming if one read using Braille.
>>
>> Matthew
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>> read?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Matthew,
>>>
>>> I find the method you describe awkward because I feel that it interferes
>>> with my ability to perceive / connect with the audience. It sounds like 
>>> it
>>> worked very well for you, and that's great. But I like being able to 
>>> focus
>>> all of my auditory attention on the group I'm addressing. I'm by no 
>>> means
>>> suggesting that you should learn Braille before giving a presentation; 
>>> I'm
>>> just pointing out some problems that I had with this method. I used
>>> embossed
>>> and refreshable Braille when I taught calculus and other math classes
>>> during
>>> grad school. It felt like this allowed me to engage more with my 
>>> students.
>>>
>>> You referred to the "slow reading and awkward pauses" of many Braille
>>> readers. Rather than highlighting a deficiency that is inherent in the
>>> modality, I think that these problems demonstrate the issues with our
>>> educational system. I can read pretty rapidly myself, but again, I was
>>> lucky. I received daily Braille instruction from the time I was four.
>>>
>>> The fact that I consider myself "lucky" to have received daily reading
>>> instruction in primary school is the problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Matthew_2010
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:59 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>>> read?
>>>
>>> Now that I've had a little bit of time to think about this a bit more, I
>>> have indeed used my Braille display a couple of times. For a period of
>>> time
>>> I had to update a group of colleagues regarding business matters. I 
>>> would
>>> have improvised the presentations but the numbers and stats were very
>>> important so I decided to begin using my portable Braille display. It 
>>> was
>>> very frustrating and time consuming to navigate through the Braille 
>>> during
>>> my presentations as well as when asked questions. Granted I could have
>>> improved but this meant lots of practice reading Braille, and I simply
>>> don't
>>>
>>> have the time for that. My solution? I simply typed up my notes in
>>> notepad,
>>> I transferred them to my note taker, and I attached an earpiece to the
>>> note
>>> taker. I was able to use the text reading commands on my note taker to
>>> quickly read, navigate, and search for all information requested. That
>>> single $10 earpiece I borrowed from my cell phone saved me hours of time
>>> learning how to read Braille as well as helping me scan all requested
>>> information during presentations. The key in my success was making the
>>> sentences to be read brief and inserting page breaks at points in the 
>>> text
>>> where I would naturally pause anyways. These short phrases gave me 
>>> plenty
>>> of
>>>
>>> time to store the information in short term memory from line to line
>>> therefore making my presentations flow without slow reading and awkward
>>> pauses as many Braille readers often do. I think this supports my
>>> contention
>>>
>>> that Braille is a must for all under all circumstances is simply not 
>>> 100%
>>> true.
>>>
>>> Matthew
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Matthew_2010" <Matthew_2010 at charter.net>
>>> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 7:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>>> read?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is it possible that 70% of blind people not reading raile is not due to
>>>> lack of proper instruction or incompetence and has more to do with the
>>>> need simply not being there? I have a Braille display and have never 
>>>> had
>>>> even the slightest desire to use it. I really don't think I'm missing
>>>> out,
>>>
>>>> but maybe some of you can help me out by informing me of what I'm 
>>>> missing
>>>> out on. My primary reason for not using my Braille display is that 
>>>> taking
>>>> my fingers off my keyboard to read the display seems like a time
>>>> consuming
>>>
>>>> additional step to what I can quickly do with the jaws cursor and 
>>>> alike.
>>>> I
>>>
>>>> didn't lose my vision till I was an adult so maybe these posts are more
>>>> relevant to the issue of blind children first learning to read.
>>>>
>>>> Matthew
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Jason White" <jason at jasonjgw.net>
>>>> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 6:07 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How many children in America are not taught to
>>>> read?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> A braille display will give you instant access to a world of
>>>>>> information through your computer. You don't need to wait for anyone
>>>>>> to transcribe the text for you, it's there for the taking. I can't
>>>>>> think of a bigger incentive to get a child to learn braille!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree. If I had to name the single greatest braille-related 
>>>>> invention
>>>>> of the
>>>>> last 50 years, it would have to be the refreshable braille display. I
>>>>> know
>>>>> high-speed braille embossers are also important and valuable, but I
>>>>> think
>>>>> refreshable braille is the technology that really stretches the bounds
>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>> what
>>>>> is possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Perkins brailler and similar devices are of course fundamental,
>>>>> dating
>>>>> from earlier in the twentieth century.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a real need for further advances in the design of braille
>>>>> display
>>>>> hardware, leading, ideally, to devices that are not only more
>>>>> affordable,
>>>
>>>>> but
>>>>> capable of presenting a full page of text and graphics. This would 
>>>>> make
>>>>> many
>>>>> mathematics applications much easier.
>>>>>> I should point out that some people have an irrational fear of
>>>>>> braille based on the notion that it makes them look more blind in
>>>>>> the eyes of the public. So money isn't the only factor.
>>>>>
>>>>> What makes this worse (and I'll take your word for it - I've never met
>>>>> any
>>>>> such person) is that it involves internalizing negative stereotypes
>>>>> about
>>>>> blindness. this list isn't the place to discuss those issues, however.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
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