[Blindmath] Homework for College Class

Tue Jan 24 22:00:53 UTC 2012

Hi Sharon,

Thanks so much for your valuable input. I definitely assumed the garbage in,
garbage out rule, but thought that might be an excellent motivational factor
for students to braille their Nemeth Code correctly. However, if an error
freezes the program entirely, that's a bummer. Has anyone used it more
recently? Have they fixed this problem?

Always the optimist,
Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Clark [mailto:sharonjackson03 at comcast.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:58 PM
To: SusanOsterhaus at tsbvi.edu; 'Blind Math list for those interested in
mathematics'
Subject: RE: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class

Susan,

The last time I tried the program, a few years ago, the program worked fine
as long as a person did not have a braille error. If there was a braille
error such as forgetting a base line indicator or the closing of a frction
then the program would stop translating altogether. 

Sharon 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Susan Osterhaus
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:45 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class

Hi Everyone,

Since I'm both a certified math teacher and a certified teacher of the
visually impaired, I read and grade my students' math papers directly,
whether in Nemeth Code or large print. However, I definitely know this is a
need for my students once they leave my clutches. I have not used the
Nemetex software personally, but I know that a blind friend and colleague
said that he was able to do so independently. I would like to know if any of
you have personal knowledge of it. I would like to know if this would help
Lanie and others or not.

Nemetex is a backtranslator from Nemeth to LaTeX, but you have to use an
electronic Nemeth file - such as from a BrailleNote.
http://www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm  Since Scientific Notebook produces
LaTeX documents, you can bring the translation into SNB and have a beautiful
print copy or you can use other LaTeX reading software as well. It was
invented by a young blind woman while still in high school.

>From her website: The current edition of the Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator
includes all mathematics through Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry and
pre-Statistics and pre-Calculus, so it will  accommodate the math work of
students from the elementary to the high school level.  Ultimately,
AccessiSoft plans to expand the capabilities of the program into College and
then Advanced Professional Editions. The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator is
Java-based and is also compatible with JAWS for Windows and Window-EyesT
screen readers (32-bit operating systems only).

The website was last updated in 2010, so I am hoping that perhaps she has
added the capabilities for doing college math, or perhaps she has become too
busy with her own college classes.

Susan J, I know that you also have a backtranslator. How goes your work, as
I know that you have had to contend with some heavy-duty obstacles.

Best wishes,

Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tami Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:48 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class

Michael and Amanda,

That is the notation that makes sense to me, as a former sighted math
student, etc., since that is how such expressions are written by hand. 
 From back in the good old days when people did math with a pencil and
paper. /smile/

What I'm hearing in a lot of these discussions is that there are many ways
for a blind student or mathematician to produce mathematical and scientific
notation so that they can output it and read it for themselves. Is that
correct?

However, to then produce the results for the professor or other sighted
readers, there is a hang up? Do I have that right?

I'm just asking out of curiosity as I get closer to returning to math and to
being able to think sensibly about doing math without sight... I love the
progress that has been made and is being made! But since I am also a
programmer, the more I learn about accessibility and the way it is
progressing, the more I want to understand enough to get involved there,
too.

Keep up the good work, y'all! And thanks.

Tami

On 01/24/2012 09:36 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Amanda I probably would naturally choose the notation you gave, it is 
> more obvious to anyone what it is without needing to explain your 
> notation. Well strictly speaking using the brackets like that isn't a 
> special notation, its a commonly used system when dealing with 
> computer software, excel probably would understand it, etc.
>
> Michael Whapples
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lacy
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:06 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class
>
> Ben,
>
> Do sighted professors understand 1 // 2/3 without explanation? I use
> 1/(2/3)
> to make sure anyone can know what I meant.
>
> Amanda
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Humphreys"
> <brh at opticinspiration.org>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class
>
>
>> While I certainly can't quarrel with the presentation of Latex, I did 
>> just finish Calculus 1 and I can vouch that there is plenty to learn 
>> and challenges to overcome without the added complexity and 
>> difficulty of reading Latex compared to a shorthand, which I've 
>> discussed
before.
>>
>> For example, consider a fraction divided by another fraction such as
>> 1 divided by 2/3
>>
>> In Latex, we have:
>>
>> \frac{ 1 }{ \frac{ 2}{3} }
>>
>> Now, consider the shorthand that I used in my own homework
>>
>> 1 // 2/3
>>
>> So the double slash is the "big" division line" if you will.
>>
>> Now, I'm aware of all the shortcomings of non-standards based 
>> solutions, but as a practical matter, you're working hundreds of 
>> prolems, some of them difficult enough in math, without the added 
>> complexity, syntax, and additional brainpower to translate Latek back 
>> into what your classmates are seeing natively.
>>
>> Admittedly, I'm dealing with blindness as an adult without the 
>> benefit of mastery of braille or Nemeth at a young age, so I rely on 
>> a screen reader and others mileage may very.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> At 03:55 AM 1/24/2012, you wrote:
>>> Lanie,
>>> LateX is the standard for producing mathematical documents on many 
>>> universities. I highly recommend you learn it. Unlike some self 
>>> invented shorthand lateX allows you to express any mathematical 
>>> expression unambiguously. LateX will also benefit you when you are 
>>> writing a thesis because you'll be able to get a perfect layout just 
>>> by coding correctly rather than having to check it on the screen.
>>>
>>> You can write lateX in any text editor, and you can convert it into 
>>> PDF using the pdflatex command line program which comes with mictex.
>>> I hear TeXnic center is accessible and could make your job easier.
>>> There are many lateX tutorials which can get you started.
>>> Tim
>>> On 1/24/2012 5:51 AM, Lanie wrote:
>>>> I only tried ones specificly for math such as LaTeX and Scientific 
>>>> Notebook, but that's a good idea to use shorthand in a regular 
>>>> workprocessor.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Alex Hall <mehgcap at gmail.com
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics 
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:45:09 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class
>>>>
>>>> What programs have you tried for wordprocessing? I can't think of 
>>>> any that nvda won't work with. Even Notepad should do the trick, 
>>>> even if you have to use a shorthand for some symbols, such as sr(x) 
>>>> for square root of x.
>>>>
>>>> Have a great day,
>>>> Alex (msg sent from my iPod)
>>>> mehgcap at gmail.com; //facebook.com/mehgcap
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 23:25, Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi, all. I was wondering if anyone can help with this. I'm taking a 
>>>> calculus class in college, where I've just done "so homework and 
>>>> now have it in Braille. I'm not beure how to transcribe it into a 
>>>> format my professor can read though. Does anyone have any 
>>>> suggestions. So far, I thought of using a computer program where I 
>>>> could type it out and email it to him, but I haven't found one 
>>>> that's accessible with NVDA, the screen reader I use. My second 
>>>> option would be reading it all out loud on to a digital recorder 
>>>> and emailing it to him, but that's just really tedious. Also, I've 
>>>> thought about getting a reader and scribe, but that will make me 
>>>> tied down to someone, and with my schedule, that won't really work.
>>>> I would really appreciate any help ASAP. Thanks.
>>>>
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