[Blindmath] Homework for College Class

Wed Jan 25 00:06:43 UTC 2012

You are right about there being many options for writing the math and 
reading it back. The issue comes when you add in that you migat want someone 
sighted to read it as well. Each option has its advantages and 
disadvantages.

Some questions which may be asked of the various systems could include:
* How efficient is it for you to read and write it? LaTeX probably scores 
poorly in the reading part as it can just be so bulky and there may be 
additional stuff for formatting which gets in the way. Braille at the other 
end of the scale probably scores highly.
* How easy do you need it for a sighted person to understand? LaTeX probably 
scores well if you need someone sighted to read it, certainly at university 
level there may be tutors who use it themselves and for submitting the work 
you compile it to a PDF which has normal print notation. Braille, certainly 
paper Braille, will score poorly here as in mainstream society it will be 
unlikely that tutors will understand it. Some notations which are a bit 
invented may be understandable by a sighted person but may need a little 
explaining (eg. I probably would never have got the meaning of the double 
slash without the description).
* How far might a system take you? Some of the invented systems may not be 
able to cope with really advanced maths, or if they do they may end up being 
as complicated as the rest. Systems such as LaTeX you would be certain it 
will take you beyond university, however if you don't need to go that far 
then may be its more than required.

To find something which performs well for all the above is where it really 
comes hard.

Michael Whapples

----Original Message----- 
From: Tami Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 6:48 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class

Michael and Amanda,

That is the notation that makes sense to me, as a former sighted math
student, etc., since that is how such expressions are written by hand.
>From back in the good old days when people did math with a pencil and
paper. /smile/

What I'm hearing in a lot of these discussions is that there are many
ways for a blind student or mathematician to produce mathematical and
scientific notation so that they can output it and read it for
themselves. Is that correct?

However, to then produce the results for the professor or other sighted
readers, there is a hang up? Do I have that right?

I'm just asking out of curiosity as I get closer to returning to math
and to being able to think sensibly about doing math without sight... I
love the progress that has been made and is being made! But since I am
also a programmer, the more I learn about accessibility and the way it
is progressing, the more I want to understand enough to get involved
there, too.

Keep up the good work, y'all! And thanks.

Tami

On 01/24/2012 09:36 AM, Michael Whapples wrote:
> Amanda I probably would naturally choose the notation you gave, it is
> more obvious to anyone what it is without needing to explain your
> notation. Well strictly speaking using the brackets like that isn't a
> special notation, its a commonly used system when dealing with computer
> software, excel probably would understand it, etc.
>
> Michael Whapples
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lacy
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:06 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class
>
> Ben,
>
> Do sighted professors understand 1 // 2/3 without explanation? I use
> 1/(2/3)
> to make sure anyone can know what I meant.
>
> Amanda
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Humphreys"
> <brh at opticinspiration.org>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class
>
>
>> While I certainly can't quarrel with the presentation of Latex, I did
>> just finish Calculus 1 and I can vouch that there is plenty to learn
>> and challenges to overcome without the added complexity and difficulty
>> of reading Latex compared to a shorthand, which I've discussed before.
>>
>> For example, consider a fraction divided by another fraction such as 1
>> divided by 2/3
>>
>> In Latex, we have:
>>
>> \frac{ 1 }{ \frac{ 2}{3} }
>>
>> Now, consider the shorthand that I used in my own homework
>>
>> 1 // 2/3
>>
>> So the double slash is the "big" division line" if you will.
>>
>> Now, I'm aware of all the shortcomings of non-standards based
>> solutions, but as a practical matter, you're working hundreds of
>> prolems, some of them difficult enough in math, without the added
>> complexity, syntax, and additional brainpower to translate Latek back
>> into what your classmates are seeing natively.
>>
>> Admittedly, I'm dealing with blindness as an adult without the benefit
>> of mastery of braille or Nemeth at a young age, so I rely on a screen
>> reader and others mileage may very.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>> At 03:55 AM 1/24/2012, you wrote:
>>> Lanie,
>>> LateX is the standard for producing mathematical documents on many
>>> universities. I highly recommend you learn it. Unlike some self
>>> invented shorthand lateX allows you to express any mathematical
>>> expression unambiguously. LateX will also benefit you when you are
>>> writing a thesis because you'll be able to get a perfect layout just
>>> by coding correctly rather than having to check it on the screen.
>>>
>>> You can write lateX in any text editor, and you can convert it into
>>> PDF using the pdflatex command line program which comes with mictex.
>>> I hear TeXnic center is accessible and could make your job easier.
>>> There are many lateX tutorials which can get you started.
>>> Tim
>>> On 1/24/2012 5:51 AM, Lanie wrote:
>>>> I only tried ones specificly for math such as LaTeX and Scientific
>>>> Notebook, but that's a good idea to use shorthand in a regular
>>>> workprocessor.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Alex Hall <mehgcap at gmail.com
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 23:45:09 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Homework for College Class
>>>>
>>>> What programs have you tried for wordprocessing? I can't think of
>>>> any that nvda won't work with. Even Notepad should do the trick,
>>>> even if you have to use a shorthand for some symbols, such as sr(x)
>>>> for square root of x.
>>>>
>>>> Have a great day,
>>>> Alex (msg sent from my iPod)
>>>> mehgcap at gmail.com; //facebook.com/mehgcap
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 23:25, Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi, all. I was wondering if anyone can help with this. I'm taking a
>>>> calculus class in college, where I've just done "so homework and now
>>>> have it in Braille. I'm not beure how to transcribe it into a format
>>>> my professor can read though. Does anyone have any suggestions. So
>>>> far, I thought of using a computer program where I could type it out
>>>> and email it to him, but I haven't found one that's accessible with
>>>> NVDA, the screen reader I use. My second option would be reading it
>>>> all out loud on to a digital recorder and emailing it to him, but
>>>> that's just really tedious. Also, I've thought about getting a
>>>> reader and scribe, but that will make me tied down to someone, and
>>>> with my schedule, that won't really work. I would really appreciate
>>>> any help ASAP. Thanks.
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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