[Blindmath] Graphics

Tue Jan 31 20:00:46 UTC 2012

If you are against using Powerpoint, I highly recommend HTMLSlidy (easily
found with a web search).  It's free from the W3C and is HTML+CSS+JS (for
animation effects), and is therefore relatively accessible.  The biggest
problem I had with it is that you need to link one slide to the next
manually, so when you change slide order, it's a bit of annoying busy work
updating the links.

Neil Soiffer
Senior Scientist
Design Science, Inc.
www.dessci.com
~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Jonathan Godfrey <a.j.godfrey at massey.ac.nz
> wrote:

> Hi Dick et al.,
>
> I'm intrigued by your slide brewer.
>
> One reason I love LaTeX and therefore html is that I don't worry about
> where things are. As long as I don't do anything too silly, the content is
> conveyed to the students in a suitable form.
>
> I detest power point, but it remains accessible (to a certain degree), and
> I can use LaTeX via add-on packages. I have however been searching for ways
> to generate html (and therefore xml) quickly for new presentations. My
> level of frustration with Power point means I have tried some rather
> interesting solutions.
>
> I have tried Beamer of course but as long as the output files are pdf then
> I am not interested.
>
> The topic of making accessible slides for seminars and lectures has come
> up on this list before, albeit a few years ago. The problem remains
> unchanged since that time. I am wondering if your slide brewer is
> accessible and therefore useful to me and other blindies on this list.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> At 07:58 a.m. 1/02/2012, you wrote:
>
>> As long as I am rambling, I will also add a few comments regarding what I
>> consider to be good practice for non-image slides.
>>
>> To begin with, I don't use Power Point. Many years ago, as a revolt
>> against
>> the high cost of Microsoft Office software, I wrote my own homebrew slide
>> maker and slide viewer system. In my system, each slide is simply a small
>> XHTML file with links to the next and previous slides. A door can be
>> opened
>> on the left side of the viewer exposing links to every slide, thereby
>> facilitating navigation beyond the simple next and previous links.
>>
>> Therefore, students don't need to purchase Microsoft Office to view my
>> slides on their own computers. Any reasonably modern browser will do the
>> job.
>>
>> Also, I don't use fancy transitions, fancy Power Point borders, etc. My
>> slides contain only two types of content: text and images.
>>
>> I typically use a split-screen presentation approach where the left half
>> of
>> the screen shows the current slide and the right half of the screen shows
>> material that was deposited there earlier. The material on the right could
>> be an image, it could be programming source code, it could be anything
>> that
>> I want to refer to later as the lecture progresses. In addition to
>> listings
>> and images appearing in slides along with explanatory text, my system also
>> creates a separate XHTML file for each listing and each image so that I
>> can
>> open them on the right side of the screen and refer to them later.
>>
>> All of that having being said, most of the slides contain only text. And
>> that text is mostly in the form of bullets or important points. As the
>> lecture progresses and I bring new slides up on the screen, I expect the
>> students to be able to read the bullets or the important points on their
>> own. My verbal presentation is to elaborate on those points.
>>
>> A blind student can't read the bullets. Therefore, it is extremely
>> important to provide the blind students with complete copies of the slides
>> sufficiently in advance of the presentation to allow them to convert the
>> slides into an accessible format, which they can use in the classroom
>> during the presentation.
>>
>> If the student has access to a computer with a browser in the classroom,
>> all that is necessary is for the student to bring the slides to the
>> classroom on a flash drive. If the student uses a refreshable Braille pad
>> with the computer, all the better because the student can read the slides
>> without the need for ear buds and an audio screen reader. If the college
>> doesn't provide a computer for the student in the classroom, the student
>> can bring a laptop to class.
>>
>> If the student can't bring a laptop to class, that student can convert the
>> slides to Braille on paper provided the slides are available to the
>> student
>> sufficiently far in advance. The important thing is to make certain that
>> the student has an electronic copy of the slides sufficiently far in
>> advance of the presentation to facilitate one of the accessibility routes
>> described above.
>>
>> Another thing that is very important and can sometimes be difficult to
>> achieve is to make each slide easily identifiable so that the blind
>> student
>> can stay in synch with the lecture, and can get back in synch if
>> synchronization is lost.
>>
>> The reason this can be difficult is that I often make changes to some of
>> the slides shortly before the class begins. If the student will use a
>> computer to view the slides, this can be handled rather easily by making
>> certain that the student receives and is working from the latest set of
>> slides during the presentation. If the student is working from preprinted
>> Braille on paper, it is more of a problem.
>>
>> Bottom line: Whether the lecture slides consist of text, images, or a
>> combination of the two, instructors must make certain that blind students
>> receive a copy of the slides which have been made as accessible as
>> practical before the class begins.
>>
>> Some slides simply cannot be made accessible for blind students. For
>> example, in one of my courses, some of the slides embed interactive Java
>> applets, which may not be accessible due to Java accessibility issues.
>> Even
>> in those cases, however, screen shots of the applet in use can be provided
>> for conversion to tactile format for use by the blind student.
>>
>> That's probably enough rambling for this session.
>>
>> Dick Baldwin
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Jonathan Godfrey <
>> a.j.godfrey at massey.ac.nz
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I agree with John and Dick here. Good teaching is often making the
>> > unnatural seem natural and the group of students I deal with (none
>> blind so
>> > far) is very diverse.
>> >
>> > I have found that the lecturers who used "this", "that", "here", and
>> > "there" were also the ones that didn't seem to be able to use their legs
>> > very well. They were stuck in the mould of holding a pen or a mouse
>> > (previously chalk) and their pointing was contained to the objects
>> within
>> > the length of their arms of any pointers that might be in the lecture
>> room.
>> > Thankfully the laser pointer didn't seem to be used by many of my
>> lecturers.
>> >
>> > As my drawings are a little like cartoons, perhaps even heading towards
>> > abstract art, I don't risk using those dreaded words without a more
>> useful
>> > indicator of what I am speaking about. It is made more natural by moving
>> > away from the board often into the audience part of the room. In a large
>> > lecture theatre (100 students is small) this was less natural than in
>> the
>> > more common teaching room I use which holds at most 20 students all
>> sitting
>> > at computers. I do try to point at things on the power point slides but
>> my
>> > accuracy is somewhat questionable. To cover this flaw I just move
>> further
>> > away from the board and force myself to use words. In the second half of
>> > 2012, I will be teaching a class that exceeds the capacity of the
>> largest
>> > lecture theatre on campus. We will be in one room and a second room will
>> > have the same material put up on the data show in there. Those students
>> > will not see anything I might do with my hands so the words will be
>> crucial.
>> >
>> > It's only recently that some of my former first-year students have told
>> me
>> > what was working in the classroom. (They're now post graduates with more
>> > confidence.) My descriptions that didn't involve them watching my hands
>> all
>> > the time meant they didn't miss things as they looked down to write
>> their
>> > notes.
>> >
>> > A final comment about the styles of learning. John mentioned audio and
>> > visual learners. There are also those students that need to do a task to
>> > learn it. Kinesthetic learners are perhaps the worst off in a lecture
>> room
>> > as they need to take the knowledge out of the classroom and try it out
>> for
>> > themselves to really understand. In a small tutorial sized computer lab,
>> > the kinesthetic learner really comes into their own as the ability to do
>> > the task is right there with them. I love teaching in the computer lab
>> > because of the varied opportunities to engage with my students. They are
>> > forced to drive their own computers to engage with the class as I can't
>> do
>> > it for them.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Jonathan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 06:43 a.m. 1/02/2012, you wrote:
>> >
>> >> Interesting discussion.  I should point out that precision in
>> lecturing is
>> >> not just good for blind students - it is good for all students.  I have
>> >> heard thousands of lectures in my life and find that lecturers that I
>> find
>> >> particularly good/bad are also perceived that way by sighted
>> colleagues.
>> >>
>> >> I am frequently asked what a lecturer should do to make his lecture
>> >> accessible to me.  My answer is that a really good lecturer will
>> present
>> >> material that needs no audio for a visual learner and needs no visual
>> for
>> >> an
>> >> audio learner.  The only exception to my rule are visual jokes - jokes
>> >> needing explanation are generally not funny, so it is up to the person
>> >> sitting next to me to explain visual jokes to me.
>> >>
>> >> And finally, special educators find that approximately 40% of students
>> in
>> >> an
>> >> average classroom have some kind of learning difficulty.  What is
>> useful
>> >> to
>> >> the 60% is essential to the 40%.  So precise lecturing helps many more
>> >> students than those who are blind.
>> >>
>> >> Good work Dick!
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces@**nf**
>> bnet.org <http://nfbnet.org><blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org<blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> >]
>> >> On
>> >>  Behalf Of Richard Baldwin
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 8:52 AM
>> >> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Graphics
>> >>
>> >> Michael's point is a good one and one for which there are no easy
>> answers.
>> >>
>> >> When teaching a mixed class with one or more blind students and mostly
>> >> sighted students, the instructor must walk a fine line between being so
>> >> verbally accommodating of the blind students that they begin to feel
>> self
>> >> conscious and not being accommodating enough for the blind students to
>> >> understand the material. It also helps a lot when the blind students
>> are
>> >> not shy about asking for clarification. Fortunately, at the college
>> where
>> >> I
>> >> teach, we don't have classes with hundreds of students. I typically
>> have
>> >> somewhere between 15 and 24 students in a class and am able to respond
>> to
>> >> questions from both blind and sighted students.
>> >>
>> >> The instructor must constantly remind himself or herself that there are
>> >> people who can't see the slides and use terms like "near the lower left
>> >> corner", "the vector labeled B with its tail at coordinates 2,2", "the
>> >> rectangle in the center that is colored red", etc. It is not an easy
>> task
>> >> and I am far from perfect, but I try.
>> >>
>> >> I currently have one blind student in one course and a seriously
>> visually
>> >> impaired student in a different course. The blind student has been
>> >> enrolled
>> >> in several of my previous courses, but this is the first one in which I
>> >> have had an opportunity to develop the material from the ground up with
>> >> blind accessibility as one of the objectives. That is also very helpful
>> >>
>> >> One of those students is very good about visiting during office hours
>> >> before class to discuss the upcoming graphics material and that also
>> helps
>> >> a lot.
>> >>
>> >> Dick Baldwin
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In a large lecture of well over a hundred students, its a big ask.
>> >> >
>> >> > Michael whapples
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:44 PM
>> >> >
>> >> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Graphics
>> >> >
>> >> >       Can't the blind student speak up and ask? I always did.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> [mailto:blindmath-bounces@****nf**bnet.org <http://nfbnet.org><
>> >> blindmath-bounces@**nfbnet.org <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org>**>]
>> >> > On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 4:14 AM
>> >> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Graphics
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes I agree with this about not wanting people listening to
>> >> pre-recording
>> >> > audio while you are trying to explain the graph. However that in
>> itself
>> >> is
>> >> > a
>> >> > form of audio-touch, in a loose sense, as the student is getting
>> audio
>> >> > (you)
>> >> > explaining the graph. The ideal situation might be that the student
>> has
>> >> > someone sitting next to them to help guide them round the tactile
>> >> diagram.
>> >> >
>> >> > Richard, here is a question for you, one real problem I kept coming
>> >> across
>> >> > while studying physics was the tutors using phrases like "this part
>> of
>> >> the
>> >> > graph", how many "this", "that", "here" and "there" do you use? If
>> one
>> >> > cannot see the graph you are pointing at, where is here?
>> Unfortunately
>> >> its
>> >> > such a natural way of talking that even when you are aware of it you
>> can
>> >> > slip back into those phrases where one relies on seeing the pointing
>> to
>> >> > understand the talking. I think my point here is that sometimes the
>> >> talking
>> >> > alone is not as useful as you may initially think. Its not an
>> argument
>> >> for
>> >> > sticking in the ear-buds, but rather that may be the blind student
>> does
>> >> > need
>> >> > some extra help with finding "here".
>> >> >
>> >> > Michael Whapples
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Richard Baldwin
>> >> > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 3:57 PM
>> >> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> >> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Graphics
>> >> >
>> >> > I will make one comment relative to audio-touch. Every technology has
>> >> its
>> >> > good points and its bad points. While audio-touch may be the best
>> >> solution
>> >> > in some situations, it may not be the best solution in other
>> situations.
>> >> > Also, until we see audio-touch applications on tablet computers, it
>> will
>> >> > continue to be the most expensive solution in most situations.
>> >> >
>> >> > For example, if I am in a classroom containing a mixture of blind and
>> >> > sighted students, and I am using a graphic on a slide that is
>> projected
>> >> on
>> >> > a screen at the front of the room to explain the characteristics of a
>> >> > damped sine wave exhibiting an exponential decay, I would prefer that
>> >> the
>> >> > blind students have good quality tactile images of the slide and that
>> >> they
>> >> > be concentrating on my explanation of the shape and other
>> >> characteristics
>> >> > of the graphic as opposed to wearing ear buds and listening to
>> >> pre-recorded
>> >> > messages about the graphic.
>> >> >
>> >> > There is a time and a place for everything, and the lecture
>> classroom is
>> >> > not necessarily the place for wearing ear buds.
>> >> >
>> >> > Dick Baldwin
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 6:25 AM, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com
>> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >  Hello,
>> >> >> A couple of things in response.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Firstly the swell paper thing, probably in that one message where I
>> say
>> >> >> IVEO can be used with swell paper, it probably was left to be
>> implied
>> >> by
>> >> >> the reader that it would be subjected to the limitations of swell
>> >> paper,
>> >> I
>> >> >> didn't feel like typing it out on a touchscreen. However I would
>> say,
>> >> >> while
>> >> >> it cannot do colour/shading like the tiger, it is possible to have
>> ways
>> >> of
>> >> >> differentiating between different regions with swell paper by using
>> >> >> different textures (eg. horizontal lines, vertical lines, dots,
>> etc).
>> >> >> Admittedly applying a texture to an area is probably more
>> complicated
>> >> than
>> >> >> using colours or shading, but if ViewPlus wants to make IVEO better
>> >> with
>> >> >> swell paper it might be a feature (apply texture) worth considering,
>> >> but
>> >> >> whether ViewPlus wants to add such a feature is up to ViewPlus.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The other point or may be question is may be of more interest. Your
>> >> >> comments on why ViewPlus and you focussed on audio-touch instead of
>> >> just
>> >> >> tactile diagrams is interesting to read, I don't think I would
>> dispute
>> >> >> anything there. What I am left with is a slight question of why did
>> you
>> >> go
>> >> >> audio-touch instead of plain audio, or may be more popularly called
>> >> >> sonification? Quite a number of people have gone down the pure
>> >> >> sonification
>> >> >> route in trying to make visual images accessible, so there must be
>> >> >> something desirable in pure sonification but why did you feel the
>> touch
>> >> >> part is also important? Personally I have always found pure
>> >> sonification
>> >> >> difficult to master, I just seem to have some sort of disconnect or
>> gap
>> >> >> between the audio and the spatial, so find it very difficult to
>> >> visualise
>> >> >> anything from passively listening to audio.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Please do let us know more as that project progresses.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Michael Whapples
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: John Gardner
>> >> >> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:24 PM
>> >> >> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> >> >> Subject: [Blindmath] Graphics
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I agree with Dick Baldwin that at the present time, a blind person
>> >> needs
>> >> >> sighted assistance to access most graphical information.  I
>> described a
>> >> >> way
>> >> >> that a blind person who has IVEO and a ViewPlus embosser can access
>> >> >> graphics, but it is tedious and gives only partial access.  Even if
>> >> Jamal
>> >> >> and Dick could drive a process that could reliably isolate and
>> process
>> >> >> images, I am skeptical that, in the end, most images will be
>> accessible
>> >> >> without sighted assistance anyhow.  We have to face the physical
>> fact
>> >> that
>> >> >> fingers are not a fully adequate substitute for vision even for the
>> >> most
>> >> >> competent braille/tactile graphics readers.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My vision of graphics is that they should be published in an
>> accessible
>> >> >> format, and I have devoted much of my energy for nearly 20 years to
>> >> >> developing methods that have some chance of actually happening.  I'm
>> >> not
>> >> >> unhappy with what ViewPlus has achieved, but I sure wish we could
>> speed
>> >> up
>> >> >> the process and bring down the cost to end users.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ViewPlus expects soon to be starting a new project funded partly by
>> the
>> >> >> DIAGRAM project to evaluate usability of SVG graphics accessed by
>> >> >> audio/touch - which is what IVEO is all about.  Assuming that
>> >> preliminary
>> >> >> information is correct and the grant is approved, I will soon be
>> >> looking
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> committed volunteers and suspect that several of you would like to
>> >> >> volunteer.  I particularly encourage people who have access to a
>> >> ViewPlus
>> >> >> embosser to volunteer.  Those without such access can still
>> >> participate,
>> >> >> but
>> >> >> they'll need to wait a few days for their tactiles to arrive in the
>> >> mail.
>> >> >> By the way, Michael is right that swell paper works too but only for
>> >> line
>> >> >> art.  Anything with color or texture is just a mess with swell
>> paper.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The purpose of the grant is for volunteers to evaluate a number of
>> SVG
>> >> >> files
>> >> >> per month and to submit some of their own images to be "made
>> >> accessible".
>> >> >> Good accessibility means that text speaks when touched, math is
>> spoken
>> >> >> properly, and important graphic objects speak their titles when
>> >> touched.
>> >> >> The more complex the graphic, the more important it is for graphic
>> >> objects
>> >> >> to be labeled.  Processing of color beyond the simple default for
>> >> ViewPlus
>> >> >> embossers would help, particularly for images that are not
>> >> >> well-represented
>> >> >> in gray scale.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> More information will be forthcoming when the project starts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> One final comment.  Audio-touch access requires a computer and some
>> >> >> external
>> >> >> equipment to use.  Why not make graphics accessible by touch alone?
>>  It
>> >> is
>> >> >> clearly possible for experts to make graphical information
>> accessible
>> >> as
>> >> >> stand-alone tactile graphics.  Generally that graphic needs to be
>> >> >> considerably simplified and needs braille labels and a braille
>> >> >> description.
>> >> >> It is costly, because a trained expert needs to make the tactile
>> >> version.
>> >> >> In addition, surprisingly few blind people can read it anyhow.  On
>> the
>> >> >> other
>> >> >> hand, it is much easier to convert a graphic to SVG and add the
>> >> meta-data
>> >> >> necessary to make it accessible.  Simplification is unnecessary. The
>> >> >> learning curve for both the creator and user is not high, and
>> anybody
>> >> who
>> >> >> wants to learn can do it.  Finally it is possible in principle for
>> >> almost
>> >> >> any mainstream graphic to be published in SVG with that meta-data
>> >> included
>> >> >> so that it is automatically accessible.  That is just not the case
>> for
>> >> >> stand-alone tactiles.  These are the reasons that I have
>> concentrated
>> >> on
>> >> >> audio-touch methods and will let others make stand-alone tactiles.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> John Gardner
>> >> >> ______________________________********__
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> John Gardner       |  President |  ViewPlus
>> >> >> 541.754.4002 x 220 |  www.viewplus.com
>> >> >> ______________________________********__
>> >>
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>> >> >> please notify the sender and delete the message.
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>> >> >>
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>> <http://nfbnet.org/**mailman/****options/blindmath_**nfbnet.org/****<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****>
>> >
>> >> <http://nfbne>> t.org/mailman/**options/****blindmath_nfbnet.org/**<http://t.org/mailman/**options/**blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> <http:/**/t.org/mailman/**options/**blindmath_nfbnet.org/**<http://t.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<****http**://nfbnet.org/mailman/****
>> options/** <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/**><http://nfbnet.org/**
>> mailman/options/** <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**>>
>> >> >>
>> >> blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%******40dickbaldwin.com<http://****>>
>> nfbnet.org/mailman/o <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/o>
>> >> ptions/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://blindmath_nfbnet.org/**baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>> <http**://blindmath_nfbnet.org/**baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http://blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> >> > Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> >> > http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> >> > Austin Community College
>> >> > (512) 223-4758
>> >> > mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> >> > http://www.austincc.edu/******baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/****baldwin/>
>> <http://www.austincc.**edu/**baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/>
>> ><
>> >> http://www.austincc.edu/****baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/><
>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>>>
>> >>
>> >> > ______________________________******_________________
>> >> > Blindmath mailing list
>> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> >
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> <**http://nfbnet.org/ <http://nfbnet.org/>
>> >> mailman/listinfo/blindmath_**n**fbnet.org <http://nfbnet.org> <
>> http://blindmath_nfbnet.org>>
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > Blindmath:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/******<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****>
>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.**org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> mwhapples%40aim.com<http://**n**fbnet.org/mailman/options/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**>>>
>> blindmath_nfbnet.org/m<http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> blindmath_nfbnet.org/m<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/m>
>> >
>> >> whapples%40aim.com>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ______________________________******_________________
>> >> > Blindmath mailing list
>> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> >
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> <**http://nfbnet.org/ <http://nfbnet.org/>
>> >> mailman/listinfo/blindmath_**n**fbnet.org <http://nfbnet.org> <
>> http://blindmath_nfbnet.org>>
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > Blindmath:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/******<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****>
>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.**org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com<**ht**tp://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> >> options/blindmath_nfbn <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> options/blindmath_nfbn <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbn>
>> >
>> >> et.org/rebecca.pickrell%****40tasc.com<http://et.org/**
>> rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com <http://et.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com>>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or files
>> >> > transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only
>> for
>> >> the
>> >> > addressee and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary
>> >> > and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you are not
>> the
>> >> > intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the
>> >> Message;
>> >> > (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard copies
>> of
>> >> the
>> >> > Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are hereby
>> notified
>> >> > that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the Message is
>> >> strictly
>> >> > prohibited.
>> >> >
>> >> > ______________________________******_________________
>> >> > Blindmath mailing list
>> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> >
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> <**http://nfbnet.org/ <http://nfbnet.org/>
>> >> mailman/listinfo/blindmath_**n**fbnet.org <http://nfbnet.org> <
>> http://blindmath_nfbnet.org>>
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > Blindmath:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/******<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****>
>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.**org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> mwhapples%40aim.com<http://**n**fbnet.org/mailman/options/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**>>>
>> blindmath_nfbnet.org/m<http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> blindmath_nfbnet.org/m<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/m>
>> >
>> >> whapples%40aim.com>
>> >> >
>> >> > ______________________________******_________________
>> >> > Blindmath mailing list
>> >> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> >
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> <**http://nfbnet.org/ <http://nfbnet.org/>
>> >> mailman/listinfo/blindmath_**n**fbnet.org <http://nfbnet.org> <
>> http://blindmath_nfbnet.org>>
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > Blindmath:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/******options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/******<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****>
>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.**org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<**http**://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**>
>> >> blindmath_nfbnet <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet>
>> >
>> >> .org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com****>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> >> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> >> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>> >>
>> >> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> >> Austin Community College
>> >> (512) 223-4758
>> >> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> >> http://www.austincc.edu/****baldwin/<http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/><
>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>>
>> >> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> Blindmath mailing list
>> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> Blindmath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> john.gardner%40orst.e<http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.**gardner%40orst.e<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/john.gardner%40orst.e>
>> >
>> >> du
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> Blindmath mailing list
>> >> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> Blindmath:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz<htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz>
>> >
>> >>
>> >
>> > _____
>> > Dr A. Jonathan R. Godfrey
>> > Lecturer in Statistics
>> > Institute of Fundamental Sciences
>> > Massey University
>> > Palmerston North
>> >
>> > Office: Science Tower B Room 3.15
>> > Phone: +64-6-356 9099 ext 7705
>> > Mobile: +64-29-538-9814
>> > Home Address: 22 Bond St, Palm. Nth.
>> > Home Phone: +64-6-353 2224 (Just think FLEABAG)
>> >
>> > ______________________________****_________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> <**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/****<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**>
>> > baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com<http**://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%**40dickbaldwin.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/baldwin%40dickbaldwin.com>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard G. Baldwin (Dick Baldwin)
>> Home of Baldwin's on-line Java Tutorials
>> http://www.DickBaldwin.com
>>
>> Professor of Computer Information Technology
>> Austin Community College
>> (512) 223-4758
>> mailto:Baldwin at DickBaldwin.com
>> http://www.austincc.edu/**baldwin/ <http://www.austincc.edu/baldwin/>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
>> a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/a.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz>
>>
>
> _____
> Dr A. Jonathan R. Godfrey
> Lecturer in Statistics
> Institute of Fundamental Sciences
> Massey University
> Palmerston North
>
> Office: Science Tower B Room 3.15
> Phone: +64-6-356 9099 ext 7705
> Mobile: +64-29-538-9814
> Home Address: 22 Bond St, Palm. Nth.
> Home Phone: +64-6-353 2224 (Just think FLEABAG)
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/**
> neils%40dessci.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/neils%40dessci.com>
>