[Blindmath] Issues with electronic math files and screen readers/braille displays

Thu May 10 11:58:49 UTC 2012

Michael, you have made some very good points.  Thanks for sharing that, I
appreciate it.

Ryan

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 6:17 AM, Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com> wrote:

> While Niel and design science are one of the few companies which are
> making effort in making maths accessible, I still have a bad feeling that
> entirely relying on electronic form for tests may end up not being a good
> move for those who use screen readers or Braille, probably particularly for
> those who use Braille.
>
> As an example, mathplayer which makes maths in a web page (math included
> in the MathML format) accessible to screen readers, does it by creating a
> string describing the equation in words and presenting that to the screen
> reader. While it may speak it OK, the problem is that it isn't easy to
> navigate through should the person reading need to find a specific part of
> the equation and the Braille display will only show words of the equation
> rather than proper Braille maths (eg. Nemeth notation).
>
> As an example of what I mean, take the equation a/b=c, MathPlayer will
> show this to a screen reader as:
> Fraction ay , over b end fraction equals c
> That will be what one would read on a Braille display when using
> MathPlayer and what one has to cursor through if you wanted to find what is
> on the bottom of the fraction.
>
> While it may not be too bad for such a short example, think what it can
> get like with longer equations (eg. even the quadratic formula).
>
> Other solutions tend to make use of the LaTeX notation to make maths
> accessible, and if you don't know what that is then it sort of proves what
> I say as a draw back to it, it requires people to know the LaTeX notation
> to be able to understand the maths and for some LaTeX isn't the right
> solution as they don't have much maths to deal with and so the investment
> of time to learn LaTeX is not worth it. Also LaTeX was not really designed
> as a reading notation (its really a document preparation language) and I
> feel sometimes the effort to understand the LaTeX notation while reading
> can get in the way of understanding the maths, others may disagree with
> this.
>
> Sorry if I sound a bit negative, I hope Niel can come up with something
> suitable and its also good you are asking while there is some time to get
> it sorted.
>
> Michael Whapples
>
> On 10/05/2012 01:47, Patricia Balassone wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your offer, I will be glad to forward your information. I'm
>> keeping my fingers crossed that my suggestions and concerns are heard.
>> 'Course crossing my fingers does make it harder to braille =)
>> Pat
>>
>>  Neil Soiffer<NeilS at dessci.com>  05/09/12 7:37 PM>>>
>>>>>
>>>> As the risk of being too commercial -- please have them contact me (
>> neils at dessci.com).  We have products that can be used as part of other
>> products that can help make the math accessible beyond a web page.
>>
>> I don't want to sound pessimistic, but based on past experiences, math
>> usually loses out in the last minute rush to get it all working.  It's
>> great that you are asking the questions early though -- maybe they will do
>> the work before it is too late.  You need to push REALLY hard though to
>> make sure it doesn't become the all too familiar refrain:  "we had higher
>> priority items we needed to do".
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>> Senior Scientist
>> Design Science, Inc.
>> www.dessci.com
>> ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Patricia Balassone<
>> Patricia.Balassone@**lansingschools.net<Patricia.Balassone at lansingschools.net>>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  A very good question and one that I do not yet have an answer. It could
>>> be
>>> either since the test will be available state-wide, I'm thinking a
>>> program
>>> installed on Windows to prevent unauthorized access. I will have more
>>> information next week.
>>> Pat
>>>
>>>  Ryan Hemphill<ryanhemphill.email@**gmail.com<ryanhemphill.email at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>  05/09/12 3:16 PM>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Is this going to be a web-based system, or program installed on
>>> Windows?
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Patricia Balassone<
>>> Patricia.Balassone@**lansingschools.net<Patricia.Balassone at lansingschools.net>>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  I enjoy reading posts from the BlindMath listserve, although I admit I
>>>> don’t understand a lot of what is discussed. That being said, I’m
>>>> looking
>>>> for some input as to the difficulties encountered when creating an
>>>> electronic math document that can be understood with screen readers and
>>>> braille displays. Beginning in 2014, the state assessment tests that our
>>>> high school students are required to take will only be available via
>>>> computer-generated programs. I will be talking with some of the people
>>>>
>>> who
>>>
>>>> are responsible for creating the programs to administer these tests and
>>>> I
>>>> want to use this opportunity to help make them aware of the issues
>>>>
>>> specific
>>>
>>>> to braille readers. I realize I may be asking for a lot of information,
>>>>
>>> so
>>>
>>>> it might be easier to have conversations offlist.
>>>> Thank you for any help you can give,
>>>> Patricia Balassone
>>>> VI parapro
>>>> Sexton High School
>>>> Lansing MI USA
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