[Blindmath] Math Computer Program

Mon Mar 3 23:36:34 UTC 2014

I think what you describe about wanting to use the Braille display 
keyboard is what I suspected might be the case.

Whilst my Braille display (which I have had for about 1 year and 6 
months) has a Braille keyboard, I admit I do not use the Braille input. 
This is probably due to the previous Braille display I had before not 
having a Braille input keyboard and so I am used to typing on the 
QWERTY. However I can see why people would like using the Braille 
keyboard on the display to reduce hand movement.

I think the Braille input on a QWERTY may have been designed more for 
transcribers (possibly sighted) who do not have a Braille input keyboard 
and want a way of typing the dots they want to come out. Very much a 
solution to remove the need for expensive equipment.

As for having a single solution which just works for everything: May be 
a bit hopeful, but why shouldn't you expect it. Its up to those involved 
with creating the technology to provide what is needed/wanted.

Michael Whapples
On 03/03/2014 19:37, Tami Jarvis wrote:
> Michael,
>
> My wish for 8-key input on the built-in keyboard is to minimize hand 
> movement and the consequent break in concentration and work flow. I 
> would rather the braille keyboard on a braille display than a tiny 
> little qwerty keyboard because I hate typing on tiny qwerty keyboards 
> and I find it easier to think in braille when I'm reading it.
>
> If I were moving my hands back and forth anyway, I think I would use 
> 8-key input infrequently, since the feel of the qwerty keys under my 
> fingers puts my brain in that typing mode. A lot would depend on task, 
> really. Since I'm projecting what I want to do in future, I don't have 
> as firm as grasp on how it will all work for me in reality as those 
> who are actually using the tools in work and study.
>
> I'm learning more and more about how people work with the available 
> tools and why, as well as what various individuals want in future 
> improvements. It occurs to me that when I was first moving towards 
> becoming a braille user, I had a vague notion that there was some 
> universal solution that was just kinda floating around out there and 
> that once I found it and learned to use it, all would be gravy. Was I 
> naive, or what? /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 03/02/2014 11:42 PM, Michael Whapples wrote:
>> Hello,
>> I think one desired use for Braille input is to be able to use the
>> Braille keyboards on Braille displays so that one does not move the
>> hands much between reading and writing.
>>
>> In the case of my Brailliant BI40, I believe normally the screen reader
>> handles changing the key dot patterns into various normal key events
>> (eg. it will convert dots 134 to a key event for the m key). This might
>> include key combinations (I think there is one, may be space+dots2345,
>> which performs alt+tab). Whether the mapping is the same for all screen
>> readers and as the user can change the input Braille table in many
>> screen readers, I feel this might make a technical difficulty in LEAN
>> accessing Braille keyboards on Braille displays.
>>
>> Could I ask those interested in Braille input: Would you be so
>> interested in Braille input for LEAN if it were to work with either
>> separate Braille keyboards or by using 8 keys on a qwerty keyboards (IE.
>> asdf jkl;)? Is having the Braille keyboard on your Braille display
>> critical/highly desired for Braille input?
>>
>> Michael Whapples
>> On 03/03/2014 01:52, John Gardner wrote:
>>> One more problem with braille input is that fewer and fewer 
>>> keyboards are
>>> capable of multiple key entry.  LEAN Braille is most efficient in its
>>> 8-dot
>>> form, so an 8-dot braille input keyboard would be really useful.  Are
>>> there
>>> standard keyboards that will support 8 key input? Alternatively, is
>>> there
>>> any easy inexpensive braille keyboard on the market?
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate ideas from all of you.  I am not a strong braille
>>> reader, so
>>> this is not something I know a lot about.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Michael
>>> Whapples
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 3:38 PM
>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math Computer Program
>>>
>>> Having done some work on LEAN math for John, I agree with what John has
>>> mentioned. Adding LEAN Braille input is probably a much smaller job 
>>> than
>>> adding many of the standard maths Braille codes.
>>>
>>> The LEAN Braille code was design for easy mapping between LEAN
>>> constructs and the dot patterns, so not needing complicated translation
>>> routines. Many of the standard Braille codes were optimised for things
>>> like compactness and human readers/writers, but as a consequence do 
>>> need
>>> more complicated translation routines.
>>>
>>> OK, quite a simplification, but that is the basic reasons.
>>>
>>> Michael Whapples
>>> On 02/03/2014 19:21, John Gardner wrote:
>>>> Hi Tami, yes it is easy to put in braille input for LEAN Braille,
>>>> which is
>>>> more or less a braille equivalent of the LEAN notation.  If there are
>>> people
>>>> who will use it, I could do that easily.
>>>>
>>>> Composing in Nemeth or other official braille language is infinitely
>>>> more
>>>> difficult, partly because all math braille languages have ambiguities
>>> (which
>>>> could be accounted for in various ways - in fact easily for 
>>>> Nemeth), but
>>>> more particularly, all are context-dependent, and that is a real 
>>>> killer.
>>>> Truthfully I don't know how to incorporate Nemeth equation 
>>>> composition,
>>> and
>>>> other braille math languages are even more difficult.  It is
>>>> something I'm
>>>> trying to understand better and might someday be able to do.  But not
>>>> imminently unfortunately.
>>>>
>>>> Be well all.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>>>> Tami
>>>> Jarvis
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 2:45 PM
>>>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Math Computer Program
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> Great work, and congratulations on your progress!
>>>>
>>>> You say presently one can't compose the equation using braille. Is
>>>> this a
>>>> feature that will be added in the future? I'm asking more out of
>>>> curiosity
>>>> than anything. By the time I do get back to taking math classes, LEAN
>>>> Math
>>>> will be one of the exciting new programs I plan to explore! Even if I
>>>> have
>>>> to use nasty old MS Word. /grin/
>>>>
>>>> I like the idea of being able to type in braille while I'm working in
>>>> braille, especially on complex tasks. It's not as big a deal for me to
>>>> switch back and forth as it was at first, but I still like to think in
>>> dots
>>>> when I'm using dots, if that makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> Keep up the good work!
>>>>
>>>> Tami
>>>>
>>>> On 03/01/2014 08:56 AM, John Gardner wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I will soon be releasing the final beta version of LEAN Math.  If
>>>>> you'd like to join the beta list, you are welcome to do so.  Just 
>>>>> send
>>>>> me an e-mail requesting it.
>>>>>
>>>>> LEAN Math will soon become a commercial product from ViewPlus, but it
>>>>> will basically be free.  ViewPlus will sell it to companies and
>>>>> agencies along with a support and training package, but blind
>>>>> individuals can get it free without support.  I hope that this list
>>>>> will become a LEAN support center for blind people.  I'll be doing
>>>>> what I can personally to answer questions and provide guidance.
>>>>>
>>>>> LEAN Math is an editor and interface to applications that accept
>>>>> MathML.
>>>>> The first edition is as an interface to MathType in MS Word.  So if
>>>>> you have MS Office and MathType, for you it is free.  And you will
>>>>> have a nice way to read and write standard scientific documents in MS
>>>> Word.
>>>>> I have designed LEAN Math to work as efficiently as possible with
>>>>> audio feedback, and it works with any screen reader.  It also shows
>>>>> several kinds of braille (including Nemeth), though presently you
>>>>> cannot compose the equation by typing braille.  There are also 
>>>>> lots of
>>>>> functions supporting equation manipulation permitting one to solve
>>>>> algebraic equations almost as easily as sighted people can do with a
>>>> pencil.
>>>>> LEAN Math comes with two apps that install short cuts on your 
>>>>> desktop.
>>>>> One is the LEAN Editor.  You must have a Word file open. If the
>>>>> cursor is on a MathType equation when LEAN_Edit is opened, it 
>>>>> opens in
>>>> that editor.
>>>>> Otherwise the editor opens with a blank equation.  It takes an 
>>>>> hour or
>>>>> so to read through the documentation that is within the editor to
>>>>> learn how to read and write equations, then you just do it.  When
>>>>> you've finished composing an equation, press CTRL+s to save it, and
>>>>> presto you have a MathType equation with alt text, something readable
>>>>> by sighted or blind people.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other app is LEAN_In, an app that will insert alt text in 
>>>>> MathType
>>>>> equations that can be read by any screen reader.  Alt text can be
>>>>> words or braille.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Gardner
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Elise Berkley
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 4:01 AM
>>>>> To: BlindMath
>>>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Math Computer Program
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello, everyone.  I am a new subscriber and I love this list already.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a new math student in college (even though I am 49 years 
>>>>> old).  I
>>>>> have been totally blind for 19 years so I still have visuals of
>>>>> numbers, etc.  I have Jaws on my laptop and we all know it does not
>>>>> work that well with numbers.  I am looking for a software that will
>>>>> work to speak math better to me because I am a math major and have a
>>>>> long way to go.  I can't afford anything too expensive. Thanks for
>>>>> your help and, again, I have learned new things from all of you
>>>>> already.  Elise Berkley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Elise Berkley
>>>>>
>>>>> "The joy of the Lord is my strength."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blindmath mailing list
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>>>> Blindmath:
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>>>>>
>>>>> tt.com BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>> du
>>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>> du
>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
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