[Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: Reintroducing myself and beta test opportunity for new STEM accessibility service.
Dániel Hajas
d.hajas.lists at gmail.com
Sat Feb 11 13:41:00 UTC 2017
Hi Lukasz,
I was playing with the LaTeXML commands in every possible permutation I could think of, including your suggestion and some versions of it from the manual, but haven’t made much progress. Also I start to be suspicious that my LaTeXML installation didn’t go well, as latexml —help doesn’t bring up the help as it should. Nor does latexml —VERSION work.
When I installed it using MacPorts, it seemed fine to me, no bug reports, it was reading me the steps and looked to me the installation was complete correctly.
I tried to insert the installation code again in the terminal to see what happens, but nothing really happened…Asked for my administrator password, and popped a warning which disappeared very quickly.
So I am a little puzzled at the moment.
Daniel
> On 9 Feb 2017, at 18:26, Łukasz Grabowski via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> 1. How do you exactly run LaTeXML from the
>> terminal and convert a test.tex file that I store in my download
>> folder?
>
> I don't use mac, but presumably it's the same as in linux, so first go
> to your download folder in termin and then:
> latexml --destination test.xml test.tex
> and then for example
> latexmlpost --splitat=subsection --destination=html/index.html test.xml
>
> This should produce bunch of html files with mathml in subfolder html.
> the file index.html is the main file.
>
> Unofrunately I don't us matlab. - I use the free clone popular clone
> octave. In that case you would just run comman "octave" from terminal
>
> Best,
> Łukasz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 2. I installed MatLab on Mac, but again nut sure how to run
>> it from terminal. I can open the GUI from terminal but that’s not
>> exactly what I need. Any Suggestions Doug, or anyone?
>>
>> Regarding LaTeXML I tried the commands given in the documentation on
>> the NIST site, but I am guessing I have to change directory somehow.
>> However cd Downloads didn’t help much.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel
>>> On 8 Feb 2017, at 22:54, Łukasz Grabowski via Blindmath
>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, it first converts latex to xml and then xml to html with
>>> mathml. It works remarkably well.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2017 15:51:00 -0700
>>> Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Lukasz. Will LaTeXML also convert xml files to HTML with
>>>> MathML?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Russell
>>>>
>>>>>>> *ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> 2017-02-08
>>>> 2:27 PM >>>
>>>> Let me add that In addition to LaTeX Access, or perhaps instead of
>>>> it, it is very convenient to use latexml which converts LaTeX to
>>>> HTML with MathML, and this can be then read by NVDA.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> *ukasz
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 21:22:11 +0000
>>>> Dániel Hajas via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Russell,
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me start with XML as Jason covered it rather well. The point
>>>>> is, that as long as you can convert the xml format into html
>>>>> including MathML, it can be read by screen readers given they
>>>>> support MathML. For instance JFW and Voice Over does. This case
>>>>> both speech and braille should be rendered fine, disregarding
>>>>> minor issues that are inevitable in software development. You
>>>>> would typically open these documents in a web browser. However
>>>>> editing these documents are more difficult due to the nature of
>>>>> xml tags. Also, I am not aware of too many xml to html+MathML
>>>>> convertors that are easy to use out of the box.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now LaTeX is just an other markup language. Normally this is the
>>>>> preferred language for writing publications, books, as it is easy
>>>>> to edit and also can be compiled into pdf files with chosen style
>>>>> sheets. It is more likely that authors that wrote their books
>>>>> after the 90s, will have done that in LaTeX. It is usually the
>>>>> publisher who transforms LaTeX sources into XML for further
>>>>> processing, e.g. Daisy, or ePub.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, even though authors with books written after the 90s can
>>>>> have
>>>> a
>>>>> personal LaTeX copy, they might be hesitant to share these source
>>>>> code files, as in theory it could be edited and re published. In
>>>>> my case, we managed to get books from kind authors one of our
>>>>> faculty member knew as a friend or colleague and personally
>>>>> guaranteed that the copy won*t be distributed or misused.
>>>>>
>>>>> These LaTeX source codes can be opened in a text editor. Using
>>>>> auxiliary software such as, the LaTeX Access the following LaTeX
>>>>> code: \frac{2}{x} would be translated into speech and read out
>>>>> as
>>>> *2
>>>>> over x*. As long as LaTeX Access is configured correctly, this
>>>>> can
>>>> be
>>>>> achieved using JAWS, NVDA as well, both in speech and braille.
>>>>>
>>>>> For speech translation I am not aware of any other translation
>>>> tools,
>>>>> but for braille there are solutions like the Duxbury.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this answers some of your questions. Don*t worry, there are
>>>>> never too many questions, just too little answers. So feel free to
>>>>> ask more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>> On 8 Feb 2017, at 17:25, Russell Solowoniuk via Blindmath
>>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dániel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm curious about your comment regarding obtaining a textbook
>>>>>> from the author in LaTeX or xml formats. If an author is able
>>>>>> to
>>>> provide
>>>>>> his text in either of these formats, would a student using Jaws
>>>>>> or VoiceOver be able to read the textbook and understand all the
>>>>>> math content within? I'm not at all familiar with LaTeX, so am
>>>>>> not
>>>> quite
>>>>>> sure how this would work. What would be needed if a LaTeX of the
>>>>>> text could be obtained? Math Player? Another software program? Do
>>>>>> most authors of STEM textbooks have a LaTeX or xml format of
>>>>>> their textbooks? Would an xml format be able to be read using a
>>>>>> screen reader?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of questions, I know, but, thanks for any information you
>>>>>> can provide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russell
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Russell Solowoniuk
>>>>>> AT Educational Assistant, Services to Students with Disabilities
>>>>>> MacEwan University
>>>>>> 7-198 D4, 10700-104 Ave.
>>>>>> Edmonton, AB T5J 4S2
>>>>>> E: solowoniukr at macewan.ca
>>>>>> T: 780-497-5826
>>>>>> F: 780-497-4018
>>>>>> macewan.ca
>>>>>> This communication is intended for the use of the recipient
>>>>>> to
>>>> whom
>>>>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential, personal, and/or
>>>>>> privileged information. Please contact me immediately if you are
>>>>>> not the intended recipient of this communication, and do not
>>>>>> copy, distribute, or take action relying on it. Any
>>>>>> communication received in error, or subsequent reply, should be
>>>>>> deleted or destroyed. Please consider the environment before
>>>>>> printing this email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dániel Hajas via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> 2017-02-07
>>>>>>>>> 4:07
>>>>>> AM >>>
>>>>>> Dear Lukasz,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Excellent question. This is a topic that can not be fully
>>>>>> explored within an e-mail but let me perhaps give a few key
>>>>>> points that worked for me:
>>>>>> * First and foremost, let*s establish that screen
>>>>>> magnification
>>>> and
>>>>>> screen reading have very different requirements, which of
>>>>>> course
>>>> can
>>>>>> often complement each other.
>>>>>> * For writing, reading and editing mathematical content, let it
>>>>>> be lecture notes, assessments and so on, I believe it is
>>>>>> inevitable
>>>> to
>>>>>> be familiar the LaTeX markup language, and for screen reading
>>>>>> purposes use for instance the LaTeX Access Project under Windows,
>>>>>> which I am most people from this list are familiar with. It
>>>>>> is
>>>> good
>>>>>> practise to provide lecture notes in LaTeX for this reason,
>>>>>> which
>>>> I
>>>>>> know some UK Maths and Physics departments do.
>>>>>> * I think it is also very important to have a basic
>>>>>> understanding
>>>> of
>>>>>> how for instance JAWS for Windows and Voice Over can read MathML
>>>>>> content, or other screen readers using products like MathPlayer
>>>>>> by Design Science; and be aware of online resources such as, DLMF
>>>>>> (Digital Library of Mathematical Functions) developed by NIST,
>>>>>> which provide high-level content both in LaTeX and MathML
>>>>>> formats.
>>>>>> * Finding accessible mathematics books is a different
>>>>>> chapter,
>>>> often
>>>>>> very difficult. Approaching authors, perhaps instead of
>>>>>> publishers might speed up and increase chances of finding
>>>>>> alternative formats of eBooks such as, LaTeX or XML instead of
>>>>>> PDF. Daisy with MathML is an option, but I haven*t seen many
>>>>>> examples for that yet.
>>>>>> * It is good practise to have a high-standard calculator, e.g.
>>>>>> the APH + Orbit Research developed Orion Texas Instrument
>>>> audio-graphing
>>>>>> display calculator. Equally, it is important to do these sort of
>>>>>> computations or graph sketching on non GUI programmes, such as
>>>>>> Python. The audio graphing calculator or alternative sonification
>>>>>> software such as the vOICe can help students visualise the shape
>>>>>> and trends of curves, functions, limits. While using Python or
>>>>>> other interpreted languages enable students to sketch their own
>>>>>> graphs fairly easily and have higher control over the output,
>>>>>> than for instance Ms Excel, which on occasions might be a little
>>>>>> inconvenient for this purpose.
>>>>>> * Tactile Graphics embossers such as View+ Technologies
>>>>>> provides
>>>> can
>>>>>> also help in the students understanding of graphs; however,
>>>>>> this
>>>> is
>>>>>> something that needs practise and a fair amount of time to
>>>>>> learn
>>>> to
>>>>>> use.
>>>>>> * Obviously, not only the technical but the human support
>>>>>> element
>>>> is
>>>>>> also rather relevant to be successful as a vision impaired
>>>>>> maths
>>>> or
>>>>>> STEM student. Standards such as extra time for exams,
>>>>>> assessments, additional office hours or someone who can help
>>>>>> with taking notes from the blackboard if appropriate and
>>>>>> necessary. We can not
>>>> ignore
>>>>>> the fact, that no matter how fluent someone is in using any of
>>>>>> the above technical solutions, it will always take longer to
>>>>>> view, or read, write a markup language, a graph etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are additional software solutions and accessibility
>>>>>> concerns for instance with regards to the Infty Project to OCR
>>>>>> mathematical documents in order to access further resources, or
>>>>>> the often
>>>> quoted
>>>>>> accessibility questions around mathematical software such as
>>>>>> MatLab, Wolfram Mathematica etc. How efficient these
>>>>>> technologies are always a question one needs to evaluate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I said this is just scraping the top of the ice-mountain, and
>>>>>> there are many details, other options; but I hope this is a good
>>>>>> overview for a starter and can trigger some further questions,
>>>>>> conversations. The above are my practises, experiences from the
>>>>>> few years of being a blind scientist and I am sure, as many
>>>>>> students, teachers, educators, support workers there are
>>>>>> concerned in this field, there are just as many, slightly
>>>>>> different ways of approaching the same challenge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>> On 6 Feb 2017, at 23:00, *ukasz Grabowski via Blindmath
>>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Daniel,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is not directly related to your email to blindmath email
>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> a maths lecturer at Lancaster university (sighted). I was
>>>>>>> wondering
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you could tell me how do you learn advanced, university
>>>>>>> level,
>>>>>> maths?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm preparing some accessible lecture notes for a visually
>>>> impaired
>>>>>>> student at my institution. She currently reads the lecture notes
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> very high zoom level, but I'd be very keen to hear from
>>>>>>> succesful
>>>>
>>>>>> maths
>>>>>>> students how do they cope, in order to potentially improve our
>>>>>>> approach.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Lukasz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 22:25:25 +0000
>>>>>>> Dániel Hajas via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Lucas, Zach,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lucas, thanks for your quick introduction. I don*t see why you
>>>>>>>> wouldn*t be able to help as an undergraduate, especially
>>>>>>>> with
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> great qualifications and skills you have been gathering during
>>>>>>>> your degree. In fact, I would be happy if you could help with
>>>>>>>> trying out IRIS and letting the Grapheel team know if you think
>>>>>>>> it would
>>>>>> assist
>>>>>>>> you during your science learning, and if not, how it could
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>> changed
>>>>>>>> to be more useful. It*s great you*ve done physics and
>>>>>>>> chemistry.
>>>>
>>>>>> IRIS
>>>>>>>> currently supports maths, physics, and to a lower extent
>>>>>>>> biology
>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> chemistry. However, in the near future, computer science
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> finances
>>>>>>>> support should be added.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you are happy to try IRIS, either let me know, or even
>>>>>>>> better if you drop a line to contact at grapheel.com
>>>>>>>> <mailto:contact at grapheel.com>, and I am sure the IRIS
>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>
>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> get back to you soon with details.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You really don*t need to thank me for proposing the
>>>>>>>> initiative,
>>>> I
>>>>>>>> simply encountered challenges that I believe still need
>>>> solutions,
>>>>>>>> and we try to create these solutions in the best way we can.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Zach, thanks for the enthusiastic reply, I*ll get back to you
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> in a private message, to save the list members some irrelevant
>>>>>>>> reading. If you don*t hear from me in the next 1-2 days,
>>>>>>>> please
>>>>
>>>>>> send
>>>>>>>> me a reminder in a private mail.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6 Feb 2017, at 16:11, Lucas Nadolskis via Blindmath
>>>>>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Dr. Hajas.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am currently a student of computer science at the
>>>>>>>>> University of Minnesota. I needed to take physics, and
>>>>>>>>> calculus courses last year and I am currently taking
>>>>>>>>> chemistry and linear algebra. I encountered numerous issues
>>>>>>>>> either on the past and
>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the current semester on accessibility on this area of study.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So first I want to thank you for this idea of making the
>>>>>>>>> study
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> science and engineering more accessible for blind students.
>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> think that me as a undergraduate student may help on the
>>>> project
>>>>>>>>> I would be extremely glade to help in any ways that i can.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lucas Nadolskis.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Dániel Hajas via Blindmath
>>>>>>>>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me reintroduce myself, as probably the memory of my
>>>>>>>>>> person faded on this list, since I have to confess, I
>>>>>>>>>> haven*t been posting or regularly reading the conversation
>>>>>>>>>> going on between
>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> BlindMath list members, even though I am signed up for a
>>>>>>>>>> number
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> years and always found the knowledge exchange of the list
>>>>>>>>>> very valuable, supportive and a friendly place. Personal and
>>>>>>>>>> work related pressure prevented me from participating in
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>>>> in the past year, year and a half, which I wish to change now
>>>>>>>>>> and catch up with all the unread e-mails, contribute with
>>>>>>>>>> anything I can to new topics. As part of my reintroduction,
>>>>>>>>>> please also
>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>>>> me to bring your attention to a new STEM accessibility
>>>> service.
>>>>>>>>>> You can read more about it as well, and if you wish to
>>>>>> participate
>>>>>>>>>> and help shaping the service with your feedback and
>>>>>>>>>> insights, please let the developer team or myself know about
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now to the point:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am Daniel Hajas, a blind theoretical physicist at the
>>>>>> University
>>>>>>>>>> of Sussex, England; and founder of Grapheel,
>>>> (www.grapheel.com)
>>>>>>>>>> which is a initiative to enhance accessibility of science
>>>>>>>>>> education for people with special needs, using a set of
>>>>>>>>>> online services, hardware products and public engagement
>>>>>>>>>> activities, partnering with other organisations to make
>>>>>>>>>> scientific content more accessible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As part of the Grapheel initiative, me and a small team are
>>>>>>>>>> designing an online, science community based image
>>>>>>>>>> description service (called IRIS) to enhance the study
>>>>>>>>>> experience of blind
>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired students in their education. Initially we
>>>>>>>>>> would like to focus on STEM (Science, Technology,
>>>>>>>>>> Engineering, Mathematics) education, but later expand to
>>>>>>>>>> subjects at arts
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> humanities and support image descriptions of financial
>>>>>>>>>> graphs, or wave form visualisations in music editing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As we are at a very early stage of development, we would
>>>> highly
>>>>>>>>>> appreciate insights and feedback from the blind
>>>>>>>>>> community
>>>>>> familiar
>>>>>>>>>> with accessibility considerations and state-of-the-art
>>>> products
>>>>>>>>>> and services. In particular, I would be grateful if
>>>>>>>>>> members
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> this community could test and advise us on how to improve the
>>>>>>>>>> service (please read more about it below). We have a feature
>>>>>>>>>> incomplete test version, which we run in closed beta but
>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> adding newer and new features we believe could be useful, we
>>>>>>>>>> wish to start engaging with experienced, early adapter users,
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> we can essentially build IRIS together from ground up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The service is very similar to initiatives such as, Be my
>>>> eyes,
>>>>>>>>>> Bespecular, TapTapSee and other; however, our service aims to
>>>>>>>>>> focus specifically on educational needs, with a pool of
>>>>>>>>>> volunteering experts at given academic disciplines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How does IRIS work?
>>>>>>>>>> * blind or visually impaired (BVI) students upload an image
>>>>>>>>>> of scientific content, graphs, diagrams. * BVI students
>>>>>>>>>> select a field of study (tag) e.g. physics, maths, chemistry
>>>>>>>>>> etc. and a level of difficulty. * BVI students can ask a
>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>> question
>>>>>>>>>> they would like to know about the figure. * A pool of sighted
>>>>>>>>>> volunteers with the necessary knowledge are assigned to
>>>>>>>>>> groups of chosen disciplines based on their user settings of
>>>>>>>>>> competency.
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>> When an image request is sent by a BVI student, the
>>>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>> appears
>>>>>>>>>> in a queue that all volunteers of a specific discipline
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>> view
>>>>>>>>>> and describe. * If a request is accepted, the volunteer
>>>>>>>>>> should give a description of the image based on provided
>>>>>>>>>> guidelines.
>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>> The recipient of the description can either accept the
>>>> response,
>>>>>>>>>> or ask for further clarification.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What will I need to do as a tester?
>>>>>>>>>> All you need to do is to log in whenever you can, upload a
>>>>>>>>>> figure of scientific content, wait for the description and
>>>>>>>>>> let us know what are the things you like, don*t like and
>>>>>>>>>> suggest
>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> new features you believe would be useful or could be done in
>>>>>>>>>> a better way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you feel you would be happy and able to help us, please
>>>>>>>>>> let us know by getting in touch on contact at grapheel.com.
>>>>>>>>>> Then we will send you a URL to access the service, your
>>>>>>>>>> username, password and a *How to get started* instruction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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