[Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,

Mon Feb 27 15:16:32 UTC 2017

Neil,

I do not know if it helps, but JAWS 18 can show MathML on the web as Nemeth
code on Braille displays.

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Neil
Soiffer via Blindmath
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:02 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>; Louis Maher <ljmaher at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
screen reader, 

A few notes and clarifications about MathType:

1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along with
MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that MathType
supports for import and export.

2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in far
more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.

3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will remember the
original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in MathType. So
if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to MathType and
convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you typed it.

4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of using
Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you 
Word+MathType+NVDA+convert
the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the LaTeX
without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX happens
to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is really
important if you want to make sure others understand what you wrote.

5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word documents.
If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the list
know.

I hope that clarifies a few things,

Neil Soiffer

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi Doug,
>
> I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I did not 
> write it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just 
> starting to learn Latex and MathType.
>
> I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>
> I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an image 
> by using alt+\.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the 
> equation, I moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+\, and the 
> equation turned back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and
MathType 6.9.
>
>
>
>
> Regards
> Louis Maher
> Phone: 713-444-7838
> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics 
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
> Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws 
> screen reader,
>
> Good day Louis,
>
> I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful.  I 
> didn't know that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also, 
> it took me a while to discover that alt+\ is alt+[backslash] because 
> NVDA doesn't read the character unless I single-step through it.  
> After reading your example document, I opened, in current versions of 
> Word, MathType and MathPlayer, a document I'd written several years 
> ago inold versions of Word and MathType.
> The alt+\ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert 
> back.  In your example and my old document, exponents are heavily 
> braced, even when there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your 
> e-mail integral example it seems you got away with minimal bracing.  
> The letter "n" seems to be used as a filler in multi-line equations.  
> Can yoou recommend a reference for math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?  
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Doug Miron
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen 
> reader,
>
> Hello Tolga,
>
> If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the 
> blind with JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do 
> not have a current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks 
> about NVDA, MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>
> I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
> -----
> "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math if 
> you are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already 
> have a document with math in it, then the above combination will work 
> for *reading *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author 
> math, then in Word you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use 
> MathType to convert that into MathType math (so it looks nice), which 
> can then be spoken and navigated.
> Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math 
> gives you a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you 
> didn't, then you convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen 
> again.
>
> FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle TeX""
> which
> has the keyboard shortcut alt+\. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+\ 
> will also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>
> Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from 0 
> to
> 10
> of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into Word:
> $\int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+\
>
> Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math to
you.
> If you made a mistake, type alt+\ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>
> FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error of 
> not putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any 
> subscript or superscript that is more than one character.
>
> Neil Soiffer
> Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>
> -----
>
> If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and the 
> equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>
> I have attached an example file to try this.
>
>
> I am just beginning to learn this.
>
>
>
> Regards
> Louis Maher
> Phone: 713-444-7838
> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> tolga karatas via Blindmath
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>
> Dear Sir/madam,
>
> I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business 
> Information
> technology:
>
> I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but 
> jaws isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user 
> friendly either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really 
> want to use math type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the 
> accessibility is not their.
>
> Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge please?
>
>
>
>
> Yours Faithfully,
>
>
>
>
> Tolga Karatas
>
> I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>
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