[BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses

Wed Sep 13 20:15:42 UTC 2017

John is correct, but tex4ht does untangle the \newcommand statements used in the preamble of many authors' work (including my own <smiles>)

There are numerous symbols in LaTeX that do not get converted properly. \epsilon is a classic. Use of \varepsilon is to be preferred.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Gardner via BlindMath
Sent: Thursday, 14 September 2017 2:48 a.m.
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Cc: John Gardner
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses

Tex4HT is great, but it cannot solve the problem of missing or incorrect information - which is what I have found to be the only significant problem in transforming LaTeX to MathML. 

* Biggest problem: When the author has used macros but you do not have the macro definitions, there's not much any application can do. The only solution I know is to enlist an expert to help. An expert in the field who also understands Latex may be able to recognize what the author's intent was and then create a macro definition package for you. 
* Smaller Problem: It is easy to use symbols in Latex that look right but are not. One that I remember is the use of wrong bars around determinants. MathML is a bit particular about such symbols, and I have seen some strange equations resulting from the use of wrong bars.  Fortunately once one understands the problem it is easy to do a search-and-replace on the Latex to put in the right symbol.
* Smallest problem: There are some Latex symbols that do not have unicode equivalents. I do not remember any examples but I know there are some. This is unusual but it can happen. Solution is to replace it with  a different symbol that has a unicode equivalent.

Good luck.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of White, Jason J via BlindMath
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 7:24 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: White, Jason J <jjwhite at ets.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses

Yes, it does support MathML. I have not tried it, however, so the best I can do is to refer you to the documentation for the details.

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dengler via BlindMath
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 10:09 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Bill Dengler <codeofdusk at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses

As an aside, does tex4ht support Math ML? Would be useful for some documents I’m working on.

Bill

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:36 AM, Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> It is an HTML document created from the LaTeX source using tex4ht. I had a very recent copy of the article prior to submission to use for this one. The conversion to HTML went very smoothly. This was helped along by the use of both pdf and HTML formats during the authoring process. I used this strategy a lot over the years because the HTML is easy for me to digest.
>
> The other article is being a lot more troublesome as the character encoding changed at some point during the document's progress through the editorial process. All single and double quotes were coming out in very peculiar ways and my attempt to alter the character encoding to fix that yielded an article with no line breaks. I would happily read that version if it were a matter of personal consumption, but I'm trying to fix it for putting on the web like the first one above. TO do so means losing many of the journal's style features that have little value to a blind reader. I've needed to suppress those for the conversion to HTML.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Doug and Molly Miron via BlindMath
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2017 1:43 a.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Doug and Molly Miron
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses
>
>    Thanks.  This appears to be an .html document.  I've never had a problem with this format and screen readers.  I've fairly often had problems with the .pdf format, not just with your paper.
>
> Doug Miron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 10:11 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses
>
> Hello,
>
> Take a look at:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fr-res
> ources.massey.ac.nz%2Fpapers%2Fjse.v23.n3%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cjjwhite%40
> ets.org%7C7a7aa461fedf40eea39c08d4fab1a1f5%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92f37e6dd
> d9e9b65%7C0%7C0%7C636409088214682894&sdata=7eeTzxoEffS19%2BAxUgR0%2BoO
> dxOD7wZ4ALpWOa9IL6%2B0%3D&reserved=0
> for one of these articles. I think it looks right. Let me know if there is any problem for me to fix.
>
> I'll try the other one soon enough.
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Doug and Molly Miron via BlindMath
> Sent: Monday, 11 September 2017 3:56 a.m.
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Doug and Molly Miron
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses
>
> To Drs. Godfrey and Dengler,
>
> I tried each of your papers with Acrobat Reader DC, both with NVDA and JAWS, but the readers sounded peculiar, breaking words up, and sometimes going into rapid spelling.  Do you have these papers in another format?
>
> Regards,
> Doug Miron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
> Sent: Saturday, September 9, 2017 4:43 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> The paper Bill sent around is a review of four statistical software options.
> The options for blind students studying statistics courses and their instructors across the whole range of issues is to be found at:
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.am
> stat.org%2Fpublications%2Fjse%2Fv23n3%2Fgodfrey.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cjjw
> hite%40ets.org%7C7a7aa461fedf40eea39c08d4fab1a1f5%7C0ba6e9b760b34fae92
> f37e6ddd9e9b65%7C0%7C1%7C636409088214682894&sdata=PI6aN4HwXkhub8WDLSqu
> yE8%2FpChSqU6hLReitNjsAbQ%3D&reserved=0
> This is the paper that was inspired by the experiences of people on this list (and others) as well as a summary of many tools suggested by people on this list. It is filtered to the problems and solutions found in statistics courses specifically because that relates to the authors’ expertise, and it was published in the Journal of Statistics Education with the intention that the instructors of statistics courses are our primary audience. This paper has been used by blind students as a tool for making their pathway through a statistics course all that much easier and more successful. I’ve had positive feedback from students, parents, and most often, from instructors about the paper. In the end, I feel that we achieved more than just an academic research output. As academics, Theodor and I put our colleagues on notice that they can and should be prepared to assist a blind student coming into their classroom. We acknowledged this list as a primary tool for communication of ideas and solutions and I believe what we did was entirely in keeping with the general culture of this community. We did it our way; others will use a different tool to help us all get more blind students succeeding in STEM disciplines.
>
> Only one person’s contributions get a mention via a “personal communication”
> because that person made a statement (on this list actually) that we 
> felt deserved quoting in the most direct fashion, and then in a 
> subsequent (off
> list) exchange, he made another statement that showed the possibilities and the desires we wanted to show our sighted colleagues. There are numerous individuals that have made contributions on this list that I have valued. I consider myself fortunate to have met quite a few of them at the NFB Convention in July.
>
> I know there are people out there that want to talk about the poor chances of blind people succeeding in all manner of situations. It’s a pity that these come from blind people themselves at times, when so many of us are trying so hard to make sure that a blind person can live the life they want.
>
> I’ve never said succeeding in STEM is easy. It isn’t for sighted people either, but they do find it easier than we do as blind people. I do think the difference in success in STEM versus other disciplines is reducing though, in part because so many other disciplines are incorporating things that were previously in the domain of the STEM geeks. The question for me, which remains unanswered, is whether that difference is widening for blind people. I think it has over the last twenty years or so, but I do believe the tide is turning.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
> From: BlindMath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
> Bill Dengler via BlindMath
> Sent: Sunday, 10 September 2017 7:49 a.m.
> To: Sabra Ewing
> Cc: Bill Dengler; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [BlindMath] Accessibility for Stats courses
>
> I’ve attached the article.
>
>
> Bill
>
>> On Sep 9, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Bill Dengler 
>> <codeofdusk at gmail.com<mailto:codeofdusk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Sabra,
>> Read *this* sentence: "Sabra doesn't know it and I've not ever shared 
>> it explicitly in public before now, but her negative experiences and 
>> their ongoing airing via this list were a major source of inspiration 
>> for the article Theodor and I wrote.”
>> He said “major source of inspiration”.
>> He did not say the article was written about you.
>> There is a difference.
>>
>> Bill
>>> On Sep 9, 2017, at 7:38 PM, Sabra Ewing 
>>> <sabra1023 at gmail.com<mailto:sabra1023 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sabra doesn't know it and I've not ever shared it explicitly in 
>>> public before now, but her negative experiences and their ongoing 
>>> airing via this list were a major source of inspiration for the 
>>> article Theodor and I wrote.
>>
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