[BlindMath] What is your experience reading LaTeX source?

Sat Jan 12 02:50:26 UTC 2019

Good day,

I tried to install Wintriangle but got a notice that I needed a .net 
framework, so I clicked on the button to get one.  However, I apparently 
didn't choose the right one because the wintriangle installer still 
wouldn't run.  Does anyone want to give me a step-by-step procedure?  
I'm using Windows 10.

I'm a fairly recent learner and user of LaTeX.  I use the simplest form 
possible to write my equations and use the MathType converter to give 
MathPlayer-readable equations.  I've converted a couple of source files 
for published papers that the author kindly provided, but did this by 
deleting all the excess formatting which MathType wouldn't convert 
anyway.  I didn't find this too tedious an approach, but that's because 
I didn't do it much.

Regards,

Doug Miron

On 1/11/2019 2:02 PM, Aqil Sajjad via BlindMath wrote:
> Ok, I should have phrased that 'bottom line' sentence slightly 
> differently. But the overall point is still fully valid. I am a 
> research level blind physicist and read papers from arxiv all the 
> time. And most of the time I am able to do this either with zero or 
> minimal time wasted on reading or editing the original LaTex code. The 
> reason: I choose to work with technology that allows me to do this.
>
> Yes, several blind mathematicians read LaTex code directly. But that 
> hardly means it is not a very inefficient way to read math. There is a 
> reason why sighted people generally read the compiled pdf instead of 
> reading the LaTex source code directly. The difference is like going 
> to a website and reading the html source code with all the formatting 
> junk instead of reading the actual website on display. One can of 
> course read the source code but one wouldn't normally do that as a 
> first choice unless one really has to. And this isn't merely a matter 
> of personal preference but has to do with the fact that if you have to 
> read through all those formatting commands which aren't related to the 
> content, then it's distracting and makes reading inefficient.
>
> Now, coming to the point about the inability of LaTex to MathML 
> converters to cleanly produce good MathML without requiring one to 
> edit the source code. I haven't worked with MathMl conversion because 
> I haven't been able to get one working, honestly. I have however done 
> some experimentation with LaTex to MathType convertors, and yes, the 
> results are mixed. It's true that things don't always convert well to 
> Math Type without having to edit the source code. But then this only 
> means that these tools aren't quite there yet despite all the 
> excessive hype around MathML and Math Type on these forums. It does 
> not mean that reading LaTex directly should be the way to go.
>
> As I I wrote in the previous e-mail, I use an old tool called 
> WinTriangle for reading LaTex documents because it allows conversion 
> to a clutter-free format with much less work. Yes, I do have to edit 
> the source code sometimes in order to make it convert correctly. But 
> most of the time
> I am able to simply convert it to WinTriangle without having to open 
> the LaTex source code at all. Apart from the arxiv, this also applies 
> to documents obtained by scanning something and converting it to LaTex 
> through infty reader. They mostly convert nicely to WinTriangle 
> without one having to even open the LaTex source code. This allows me 
> to focus on reading the real content without having to waste time 
> reading through all the clutter in the LaTex code.
>
> So here is the revised bottom line: One doesn't and shouldn't have to 
> spent a lot of time reading through the formatting mess in the LaTex 
> source code in order to read math. Sighted people don't do it and we 
> shouldn't have to do it either. If we're doing it, then we're using 
> the wrong technology and lowering our efficiency.
>
>
> On 1/11/2019 8:55 AM, John G Heim via BlindMath wrote:
>> Yeah, I didn't see that in the original post but I write all my own 
>> latex by hand. Every document I create for any reason, whether it is 
>> for work or for one of the non-profits I am involved in, is written 
>> in latex by hand. Then I convert it to pdf and send it out.
>>
>> I used to teach a mini-course in latex for grad students at the Math 
>> Department at the University Of Wisconsin. We dropped it a long time 
>> ago because grad students come in already knowing latex.
>>
>>
>> On 1/11/19 6:48 AM, Łukasz Grabowski via BlindMath wrote:
>>> The bottom line cited below is not quite true:
>>>
>>> "Bottom line: with several available alternatives, no one should have
>>> to read LaTex source code directly unless they really want to torture
>>> themselves."
>>>
>>> I know it for a fact that blind professional mathematicians read latex
>>> directly. If you don't believe, I suggest going to arxiv.org,
>>> downloading latex source for some new mathematical article and trying
>>> to convert it to mathml.
>>>
>>> The effect likely will be that no matter what software you use you will
>>> have to spend first a substantial amount of time editing the source 
>>> code
>>> just to make your software parse the source. And even if you do succeed
>>> (which is FAR from given as not all latex pakcages will be implemented
>>> in your conversion software)) afterwards you will also surely need to
>>> consult latex source anyway while reading mathml.
>>>
>>> Having said that, this is about professional cutting edge mathematical
>>> research. For the purpose of high school students or early university
>>> (basic calculus, statistics, etc.), there is probably indeed no need,
>>> as there are good quality mathml materials available.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Lukasz
>>>
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>>
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>
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