[BlindMath] [program-l] Re: Copying Math Expressions in HTML

Mon Nov 6 20:04:15 UTC 2023

Adding to Neil:

Copying content from a browser is not sensible. I would save the page as html and then use pandoc to convert to markdown, which is plain text with the mathematics in LaTeX notation. Depending on the age of the page, and the tools used by the author, the math may be in a less processable form. (Remember the images and alt tags we used to see all the time!)

Personally, I do not use tools that don't convert well, both backwards and forwards. I want to know that if I process from one format to another, and then back to the first format in two independent processes, that I end up with the same outcome. I can handle extra brackets and the like which help converters ensure the outcome is (visually) constant, but the tools that keep the source code for the math are the ones that end up working the best.

The markdown forever add-in for NVDA someone recommended a few weeks ago has a hot key to cut out the need to save the webpage. I have not yet found time to investigate it though as I am primarily a JAWS user. Hopefully someone else can try it out and report back for us.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Neil Soiffer via BlindMath
Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2023 8:19 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>; program-l at freelists.org
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] [program-l] Re: Copying Math Expressions in HTML

If you are using NVDA+MathCAT, once you begin navigating the expression,
cntrl+c will copy the MathML. It will copy whatever subexpression is the
current focus. JAWS has an option to use MathCAT, but I'm not sure if that extends to navigation yet. There is a feature request to add an option to copy the speech rather than the MathML. I'll get to that one of these days.

Regardless of whether you use a screen reader or not, copying text *and *math (i.e., a larger selection) in a browser (at least with Chrome or Firefox) into a plain text editor is pretty much a disaster. Even without math, copying from a browser to a text editor can be a disaster. However, the browsers write to the clipboard an HTML format in addition to various text formats, so if you have some software capable of pasting that, you will get the MathML (or text if it was alt text to an image) for the math.

I hope that clarifies things a bit,

Neil Soiffer

On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 7:56 AM Fawaz abdul rahman via BlindMath < blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hey, You can try the speech history addon, I think you'll be able to
> copy it by just pressing f12.
> But probably it won't keep the format but just to review it.
> GitHub - jscholes/nvda-speech-history: An updated version of the Clip
> Copy add-on (originally by Tyler Spivey) for NVDA.
> <https://git/
> hub.com%2Fjscholes%2Fnvda-speech-history&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40
> massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd0437898dc
> f8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C638348952592126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW
> IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%
> 7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2Fzd%2FSLIdRAgwQifGFjLYiJe5XRc9gda46nduEgMn8xc%3D&rese
> rved=0>
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2023 at 3:20 PM Jonathan Fine <jfine2358 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sent to both BlindMath and VI coders lists. Read on to see why.
> >
> > Hi Dana
> >
> > I'm glad you've solved your problem. Your comments and a tutorial
> > from Lewis Wood have given me two ideas. They relate design and
> > documentation, and I do them in that order.  Perhaps users
> > (blindmath) are more
> interested
> > in design, and coders in documentation.
> >
> > Here's the design idea. Perhaps what you want is a simple "Copy math"
> > button after some or all formulas. And also a "Copy all math" or
> something
> > similar.
> >
> > Here's a link to the page Lewi Wood wrote:
> > https://le/
> > wislwood.github.io%2Fjwt-auth-role-express%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.god
> > frey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd
> > 0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C638348952592126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
> > GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
> > n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Wp6fBiYV4QMB91xtTjHNYSCjLioMj6%2FDLP4fO9
> > G1XnU%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Here's the documentation idea. Being a sighted user, I didn't know
> > that
> > shift+f10 brings up the MathJax menu, and hence its "Copy to clipboard".
> So
> > I did the following search:
> > https://ww/
> > w.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dmathajx%2Bshift%2Bf10&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j
> > .godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e
> > 1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C638348952592126019%7CUnknown%7CT
> > WFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV
> > CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eUrq7Taw17LHJOenUDSgiWALMvvXuHEmFnJ7
> > ggT8hxA%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > I've looked at six promising links from this search (listed below).
> > From this it seems that a resource explaining MathJax, suitable for
> > blind newcomers, is not yet available.
> >
> > https://gi/
> > thub.com%2Fmathjax%2FMathJax%2Fissues%2F939&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfr
> > ey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd04
> > 37898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C638348952592126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ
> > sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0
> > %3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a81QqsUnrWVnV04ghJvH0pKFKeqtpGdJOxpluXVXNz
> > Q%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> https://math/
> .meta.stackexchange.com%2Fquestions%2F29770%2Fis-mathjax-accessible-fo
> r-people-using-screen-readers&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.n
> z%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e64430
> 0%7C1%7C0%7C638348952592126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA
> wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd
> ata=mZMSY7cY35U4gypVvrDaJ%2BFfQ1%2BPAhuXfx13KJnuRlY%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> https://math/
> .meta.stackexchange.com%2Fquestions%2F5020%2Fmathjax-basic-tutorial-an
> d-quick-reference&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb
> 5b224ecc828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C
> 638348952592126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjo
> iV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OxtS%2FZ
> hQcVAIK0xRJPaNhhAtTbXIgcrzJQ61LHN8k34%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> https://copy/
> programming.com%2Fhowto%2Fis-mathjax-accessible-for-people-using-scree
> n-readers&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc
> 828208dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C63834895
> 2592126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzI
> iLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DwOATIxhM%2FSR2C
> c87WoIdmkg4d7mIE%2F0dcNIsHvd7H4%3D&reserved=0
> > https://ju/
> > pyterlab.readthedocs.io%2Fen%2Fstable%2Fuser%2Fcommands.html&data=05
> > %7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc828208dbdefd801
> > 3%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C638348952592126019%7C
> > Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik
> > 1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2CkwisANvV%2BqgDnVDkG5%2B
> > 6vBZ9yEuzQbdO2RKHuZWyM%3D&reserved=0
> > https://fh/
> > su.pressbooks.pub%2Ffhsuguide%2Fchapter%2Fadd-mathematical-notation%
> > 2F&data=05%7C01%7Ca.j.godfrey%40massey.ac.nz%7C71c2d3fb5b224ecc82820
> > 8dbdefd8013%7C388728e1bbd0437898dcf8682e644300%7C1%7C0%7C63834895259
> > 2126019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi
> > LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b7FtFd022Mi4UWR
> > eoUWGYpb%2BWSf4Aaxv80e83taHEFk%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > with kind regards
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> >
> > with kind regards
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
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