[Blindtlk] a great article

Sun Sep 4 12:30:45 UTC 2011

Chris,

I found arguing with ACB leadership (and often with the rank and file 
as well) about the benefit of the NFB to be a losing prospect.  The 
favored tactic appears to be the straw man—they claim the NFB 
position is something indefensible (even though it is not what they 
claim it is), and then proceed to try and set fire to same for being 
so impossible.

Did you know the NFB hates guide dogs and dog users?
Did you know the NFB opposes descriptive audio?
Did you know the NFB opposes folding or collapsible canes?
Did you know the NFB demands that you cross streets unsafely?
Did you know the NFB doesn't want you to know what your money is?

None of the above statements are true.  Unless you're talking to the 
ACB leadership, of course.  Then, not only are they true, but you 
cannot question the validity of those accusations, offer a more 
accurate picture of the facts, or defend the obviously indefensible 
views we supposedly have!

But please, don't take my word for it.  That's just the conclusion I 
came to after trying to make some peace.  People warned me in both 
organizations that no peace would be had, and the basic failure of 
communication in common terms and (IMO) refusal to engage in honest 
debate will ensure that the situation does not change in the 
foreseeable future.

You may have success where I did not, but I won't be holding my 
breath or anything.

Joseph

On Sat, Sep 03, 2011 at 12:58:28PM -0400, chris nusbaum wrote:
>Hi Dave,
>
>Yeah... I know! It's so funny to me that the NFB just ignores the ACB
>generally, but the ACB uses so much valuable Braille and print to bash
>us (there, I said us.) I don't, by any means, promote the ACB on its
>bashing of the NFB, and have very adamantly defended the Federation on
>ACB lists, debating with people like Bob Acosta and Mitch Pomerantz.
>
>Chris
>
>On 9/3/11, Constance Canode <satin-bear at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Me too, Gloria.  I was just trying to be a good person on this list...smile.
>> At 01:39 PM 9/2/2011, you wrote:
>>>Sometimes I find it pretty hard to keep my mouth shut. Especially when I am
>>>defending some one or the nfb.
>>>
>>>
>>>Gloria Whipple
>>>Corresponding Secretary
>>>Inland Empire chapter
>>>nfb of WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Constance Canode
>>>Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:04
>>>To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>>
>>>I am also offended.  Usually when I see his name, I ignore it because
>>>I remember other instances where his writing and I would never agree,
>>>so I just kept my mouth shut and ignored it.
>>>
>>>At 07:27 AM 9/2/2011, you wrote:
>>> >No, no, no,. No one is directing their comments at the one who sent
>>> >this article. The words are being directed to the member of this
>>> >list who insists on bashing the federation and  putting us down for
>>> >everything we do. I am glad to see that I am not the only one who is
>>> >offended by his implications.
>>> >
>>> >As for the article itself, I think it had a lot of merit. None of
>>> >this is directed at Chris at all.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Diane Graves
>>> >Civil Rights Specialist
>>> >Indiana Civil Rights Commission
>>> >Alternative Dispute Resolutions Unit
>>> >317-232-2647
>>> >
>>> >"It is service that measures success."
>>> >George Washington Carver
>>> >
>>> >Confidentiality Notice: This E-mail transmission may contain
>>> >confidential and/or legally privileged information intended only for
>>> >the individual or entity(ies)
>>> >named in the E-mail address. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>> >be advised that any unauthorized disclosure, copying, distribution,
>>> >or acting in reliance
>>> >upon the contents of this E-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
>>> >received this E-mail transmission in error, please reply to sender
>>> >to arrange for the return and proper delivery of the transmission.
>>> >Subsequently, delete the message from your system immediately.
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >[mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Desiree Oudinot
>>> >Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 11:25 PM
>>> >To: Jeanette Fortin; Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> >Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>> >
>>> >Whoa guys, take a step back and look at what you're saying. While this
>>> >may not be the place to discuss the ACB and its policies (I agree, it
>>> >isn't) take into account this person's age. He's just a kid.
>>> >Questioning is a normal and natural part of adolescent growth, and to
>>> >stifle that is to stifle your own upbringing. Maybe that's what makes
>>> >you all most comfortable...There are plenty of adults who would rather
>>> >forget the discomfort of their formative years. But as a nearly
>>> >22-year-old myself I feel I must speak in Chris's defense.
>>> >
>>> >On 9/1/11, Jeanette Fortin <jeanette at fortin-home.com> wrote:
>>> > > you go girl, my thoughts exactly, jeanette
>>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > From: "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>>> > > To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:14 PM
>>> > > Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> This thread is very tiring, very frustrating and gets us no where. So
>>>if
>>> > >> us
>>> > >> NFB members never ask the tough questions, and look the other way.
>>> > >> What
>>> > >> was
>>> > >> the illegal behavior your speaking of? I am pretty sure if there was
>>>any
>>> > >> illegal behavior, we just as much any other person would ask the
>>>"tough"
>>> > >> questions. Not all of us just follow in line like zombies.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> If your so anti-NFB, why do you hang out here. Your welcome to leave
>>>any
>>> > >> time. We would rather you go away. So our list can go back to being
>>> > >> constructive and productive. Oh wait that is right, we are all lyres,
>>>we
>>> > >> allow illegal behavior, and follow like zombies. You can think what
>>> > >> you
>>> > >> want. But this skirting around subjects does nothing. We are not
>>> > >> going
>>>to
>>> > >> change our minds about what we think.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Marsha
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> > >> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>On
>>> > >> Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
>>> > >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 7:07 PM
>>> > >> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>> > >>
>>> > >> hi,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> no, i'm not accusing anyone, the event already happened.
>>> > >> the point is don't ask tough questions unless you have thick skin.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Bryan Schulz
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> > >> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>> > >> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > >> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:49 PM
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>>I see, my mistake.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> You aren't taking pot shots at the ACB without facts to back it up.
>>>You
>>> > >>> are taking pot shots at the NFB without facts.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> It takes a lot of guts to come into an organization and start
>>> > >>> accusing
>>> > >>> its
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> members of vaguely illegal activities without offering any specifics
>>>or
>>> > >>> evidence.  But I'm sure doing so will get you all the consideration
>>> > >>> you're
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> due.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> And with that, I think I'm about finished with the discussion.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Joseph - KF7QZC
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 05:36:54PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>> > >>>>hi,
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>no, i'm not talking about the acb but the point still applies.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>Bryan Schulz
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
>>> > >>>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>> > >>>>To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > >>>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 5:09 PM
>>> > >>>>Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>>I suggest if that helps you maximize your involvement with and
>>>benefit
>>> > >>>>>from an organization, you find another organization.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>Perhaps though, we don't want to go down this road, or at least not
>>>in
>>> > >>>>>this fashion.  The ACB has in the past allowed its members to make
>>> > >>>>>baseless, unsupported, and uncontested claims of illegal behavior
>>> > >>>>> by
>>>the
>>> > >>>>>NFB.  It was rather off-putting, and I'd have thought so even if I
>>>were
>>> > >>>>>not a Federationist!  Indeed, it seems always to be so, in any
>>> > >>>>>organization, whether or not I have any affiliation with anybody.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>If there's something new and recent that needs to be discussed
>>>regarding
>>> > >>>>>the ACB, we should probably do it, but in a new thread with the
>>>relevant
>>> > >>>>>details.  If it's a rehash of old wrongdoings by former officers, I
>>> > >>>>>don't
>>> > >>
>>> > >>>>>know how useful it would be to debate today.  It's like discussing
>>> > >>>>> a
>>> > >>>>>questionable action taken by Janet Reno while she worked for Bill
>>> > >>>>>Clinton. Anyone personally affected would find it relevant, but
>>>society
>>> > >>>>>as a whole wouldn't be interested today.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>Sometimes the bad guys get away with it.  Usually when the good
>>> > >>>>> guys
>>> > >>>>>don't stand up to them until its too late.  But that takes me off
>>> > >>>>> on
>>>my
>>> > >>>>>own tangent.
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>Joseph - KF7QZC
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 03:53:02PM -0500, Bryan Schulz wrote:
>>> > >>>>>>hi,
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>there should be at least one more.
>>> > >>>>>>#16. Don't ask tough questions even when a member does something
>>> > >>>>>>questionable and probably illegal.
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>Bryan Schulz
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Nusbaum"
>>> > >>>>>><dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> > >>>>>>To: "NABS list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "Blind Talk list"
>>> > >>>>>><blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "Gary Legates" <gary.legates at comcast.net>
>>> > >>>>>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 3:02 PM
>>> > >>>>>>Subject: [Blindtlk] a great article
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>Hi everyone,
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>As I try to learn more about both organizations, I have
>>> > >>>>>>> subscribed
>>>to
>>> > >>>>>>>both the Braille Monitor and the Braille Forum.  The Monitor, as
>>>you
>>> > >>>>>>>know, is the Federation (NFB's)  publication and the Forum is the
>>> > >>>>>>>Council (or ACB's) publication.  I found a great article in
>>> > >>>>>>> July's
>>> > >>>>>>>Forum entitled "Fifteen Ways to Maximize your ACB Membership,"
>>>giving
>>> > >>>>>>>fifteen tips on how to take advantage of all ACB (or any
>>>organization,
>>> > >>>>>>>for that matter) has to offer.  I think this could also apply to
>>>the
>>> > >>>>>>>Federation and to NABS or any other special-interest division,
>>> > >>>>>>> and
>>>is
>>> > >>>>>>>some good advice.  To be accurate, I added "or NFB" in
>>> > >>>>>>> parentheses
>>>to
>>> > >>>>>>>some parts of the article.  I have pasted the article below.  Any
>>> > >>>>>>>thoughts on this? I promise I'm not trying to force the ACB down
>>>your
>>> > >>>>>>>throats; in fact, I'm a Federationist in nature, but want to
>>> > >>>>>>> learn
>>> > >>>>>>>about both.  Here is the article.
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>15 WAYS TO MAXIMIZE YOUR ACB (or NFB) MEMBERSHIP
>>> > >>>>>>>by Kenneth Semien Sr.
>>> > >>>>>>>All too often, people join organizations without taking
>>> > >>>>>>>advantage of the opportunity to truly know intricate details of
>>> > >>>>>>> its
>>> > >>>>>>>purpose,
>>> > >>>>>>>mission, and operating practices.  This can very well result in a
>>>lack
>>> > >>>>>>>of
>>> > >>>>>>>participation and could ultimately result in a decision to
>>> > >>>>>>> forfeit
>>> > >>>>>>>what
>>> > >>>>>>>could have been the ideal vehicle to enhance your life, build
>>> > >>>>>>> great
>>> > >>>>>>>relationships and effectively share personal skills and abilities
>>>that
>>> > >>>>>>>can
>>> > >>>>>>>make an enormous difference.  In an effort to encourage you to
>>>explore
>>> > >>>>>>>the
>>> > >>>>>>>meaningful efforts of ACB, I have included the tips listed below
>>> > >>>>>>> to
>>> > >>>>>>>assist
>>> > >>>>>>>you in being all you can be and help you join with others whose
>>>skills
>>> > >>>>>>>complement yours.
>>> > >>>>>>>1.  Be inquisitive and don't hesitate to ask questions.
>>> > >>>>>>>2.  Become familiar with the history, mission, and purpose by
>>> > >>>>>>>reviewing it often enough to be able to repeat it to others.  In
>>>turn
>>> > >>>>>>>someone may realize that this is the organization they have been
>>> > >>>>>>>looking
>>> > >>>>>>>for.
>>> > >>>>>>>3.  Make a personal commitment to identify ways to get involved.
>>> > >>>>>>>4.  Find out who the officers are and become acquainted with
>>> > >>>>>>>them and their roles and responsibilities, as well as members you
>>> > >>>>>>>observe
>>> > >>>>>>>actively participating in events and projects associated with our
>>> > >>>>>>>organization.
>>> > >>>>>>>5.  Make your skills and abilities known to leaders of your
>>> > >>>>>>>chapter, affiliate, or the president of our organization.
>>> > >>>>>>>6.  Make every effort to participate in chapter, state affiliate
>>> > >>>>>>>and national meetings, seminars, conferences and conventions.
>>> > >>>>>>>7.  Inquire about available committees you may be able to serve
>>> > >>>>>>>on to assist the organization in achieving its goals and
>>>objectives.
>>> > >>>>>>>Seek
>>> > >>>>>>>to join committees that allow you to utilize your skills and
>>>abilities
>>> > >>>>>>>in
>>> > >>>>>>>the most effective and efficient manner.
>>> > >>>>>>>8.  If you have access to the Internet, sign up for up-to-date
>>> > >>>>>>>news and announcements from all levels of our organization.  Ask
>>> > >>>>>>> a
>>> > >>>>>>>president
>>> > >>>>>>>or member to tell you how to take advantage of this option.
>>> > >>>>>>>9.  Listen to or read publications/newsletters distributed by our
>>> > >>>>>>>organization on all levels.  This is one of the best ways to
>>> > >>>>>>> learn
>>> > >>>>>>>about
>>> > >>>>>>>useful resources, access inspirational stories, scholarships,
>>>awards,
>>> > >>>>>>>and
>>> > >>>>>>>upcoming projects and events.
>>> > >>>>>>>10.  Identify special-interest groups that meet your personal
>>> > >>>>>>>needs.  These groups provide you the opportunity to network with
>>> > >>>>>>>others
>>> > >>>>>>>sharing common interests, such as your prior or current
>>> > >>>>>>> occupation,
>>> > >>>>>>>hobbies,
>>> > >>>>>>>health concerns and so much more.
>>> > >>>>>>>11.  Obtain your own copy of the constitution and bylaws to learn
>>> > >>>>>>>of the agreed-upon operating practices and procedures of our
>>> > >>>>>>>organization.
>>> > >>>>>>>12.  Prepare for future involvement as an officer by becoming
>>> > >>>>>>>familiar with officer titles and duties.
>>> > >>>>>>>13.  Participate in conference calls to build your knowledge,
>>> > >>>>>>>such as membership focus calls, periodic Office Hours conference
>>>calls
>>> > >>>>>>>with
>>> > >>>>>>>the ACB president, committee calls, and special-interest group
>>>calls.
>>> > >>>>>>>14.  Explore the web sites of your chapter, state affiliate and
>>> > >>>>>>>our national organization.  You may locate information on the web
>>>site
>>> > >>>>>>>that
>>> > >>>>>>>you didn't think of inquiring about.
>>> > >>>>>>>15.  Pay your annual dues faithfully and encourage others to do
>>> > >>>>>>>the same.
>>> > >>>>>>>The more you know and the more you become involved, the more you
>>> > >>>>>>>will begin to know that you have joined a phenomenal organization
>>>that
>>> > >>>>>>>is
>>> > >>>>>>>continuing to grow.  Have a great ACB (or NFB) adventure!
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>Chris Nusbaum
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>real
>>> > >>>>>>>problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> > >>>>>>> exists.
>>>If
>>> > >>>>>>>a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness
>>>can
>>> > >>>>>>>be reduced to a mere physical nuisance." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>> > >>>>>>>(President
>>> > >>
>>> > >>>>>>>of the National Federation of the Blind, 1968-1986.)
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info
>>>for
>>> > >>>>>>>information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>> > >>>>>>>impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>Sent from my BrailleNote
>>> > >>>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>> > >>>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
>>> > >>>>>>>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> > >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> > >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>for
>>> > >>>>>>>blindtlk:
>>> > >>>>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/b.s
>>> > chulz%40sb
>>> > >> cglobal.net
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>> > >>>>>>blindtlk mailing list
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>>> > >>>>>>blindtlk:
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>>> > er.tjoseph
>>> > >> %40gmail.com
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>> > >> lobal.net
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
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>>> > >> 0gmail.com
>>> > >>>
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>>> > >>
>>> > >>
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>>> > >> ail.com
>>> > >>
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>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > >
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>
>
>-- 
>Chris Nusbaum
>
>"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
>problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
>a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
>be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
>information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>
>_______________________________________________
>blindtlk mailing list
>blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindtlk:
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