[Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane

Sun Dec 16 18:23:19 UTC 2012

Peter,

I use my cane always and without fail. My husband has very good usable vision and does not feel that he needs a cane for travel. I agree with him. So it sounds like only one of us would be welcome to visit your home. I can understand not wanting someone knocking over your valuables, but not associating with a competent person because they do not use a cane is sad. 

Constance Canode 
Sent from my I-phone 

On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net> wrote:

> Okay, so, let me see if I've got this straight now.  This woman cannot function without a cane?  Didn't quite pick that up the first time.  As for your home; well, it's your home; but, just one small point.  Suppose a blind person uses neither dog or cane; but, appears to be able to function well not withstanding?  I still reckon you'd do better with pursuation rather than force.  Seems to me that this situation is becoming a little more interesting than a blind woman just not using a cane because just because.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> Still a very proud and happy Mac and Iphone user!
> 
> On Dec 16, 2012, at 11:38 AM, "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello everyone,
>> 
>>   The article is called "The Nature of Independence." The person in 
>> question is a woman. If we're being unreasonable other chapter members 
>> including the president went farther and tried to keep this individual from 
>> joining the chapter. The individual was removed from the call list for 
>> meeting notification a situation we learned of and put a stop too. This is 
>> but one of many problems that have plagued our chapter during the year. 
>> Please keep us in your prayers that we can begin putting things right next 
>> month when we elect new officers for 2013. As for our home we make the rules 
>> here. If you depend on a travel aid for your independence and can't function 
>> without it if you wish to visit you're expected to use it. That's a non 
>> negotiable with us. We'll keep you posted on what happens.
>> 
>> Peter Donahue
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brian Miller" <brianrmiller88 at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Peter,
>> 
>> I think Dianne gives some excellent advice here.  Your example of competent
>> travel, using dog or cane, will do much more than any tough love tactics you
>> may employ. You can only show this person another way, you can't force them
>> to embrace it.
>> 
>> Being there for this person, even when they make poor choices, all the while
>> you show him an alternative will go a long way.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Brian Miller
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of pkt52 at aol.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 10:29 AM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>> 
>>> Diane - what a kind and logical response!   I love what you
>>> have written!!!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Diane Graves <princess.di2007 at gmail.com>
>>> To: blinddog3 <blinddog3 at charter.net>; 'Blind Talk Mailing
>>> List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sun, Dec 16, 2012 10:24 am
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Guys,
>>> 
>>> Does anyone remember the article Dr. Jernigan wrote about
>>> this dilemma? The name of the article is escaping me at this
>>> time, but I remember that at the end, the gist of the writing
>>> was summarized by a statement along the lines of "whether
>>> dog, or cane or human arm" the choice belongs to the
>>> individual, and the overall objective is to get where you
>>> need to go and do what you need to do.
>>> 
>>> In the NFB, we meet people at all levels. Some are newly
>>> blind, others re blind people who have been sheltered all of
>>> their lives, others are people that are so independent that
>>> they think they could climb a skyscraper and survive. (A
>>> little over the top there, but you know what I mean.)
>>> 
>>> Anyway, our job is not to judge them or dictate to them. Our
>>> job is to meet them where they are and do our best to help
>>> them. Whether or not they accept that help is up to them. The
>>> behavior that you are describing is one reason that many
>>> blind people don't want anything to do with the federation.
>>> It sounds to me like the members are refusing their
>>> friendship on the basis of his decision. Do you really think
>>> that is going to help him?
>>> 
>>> If one is so uncaring that they would call someone a cab and
>>> send them home at their expense, then why in the world would
>>> they have to take anyone to the emergency room? Call an ambulance.
>>> 
>>> With conditional friendship like that, I'm not sure why
>>> anyone would want to visit these members or be a part of the
>>> chapter anyway. He could, incidentally refuse to get into the
>>> cab and ride home at his expense.
>>> 
>>> For the record, I think it is a foolish decision myself, but
>>> I wouldn't refuse friendship on that basis, any more than I
>>> would refuse friendship on the basis of whether someone was
>>> too thin or too fat, or of another culture or any number of
>>> other characteristics. When you think about it, maybe
>>> actually being escorted/lead by a few blind people would
>>> teach this guy that he could, in  fact, learn to travel himself.
>>> 
>>> Finally, I would just point out that, while there are a good
>>> many sighted people who have a healthy perspective about
>>> blindness, there are some sighted people who have some
>>> ridiculous ideas. It may very well be true that some crazy
>>> neurologist did tell him that a cane might aggravate his
>>> seizure disorder. You just don't know.
>>> 
>>> Diane Graves
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 8:37 AM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>> 
>>> Peter,
>>> Although I am not an attorney, I am well-versed in the ADA,
>>> and with all due respect, I do not believe the ADA has any
>>> application here as the concept of direct threat, applies to
>>> Title I, covering provisions of employment; not Titles II or
>>> III.  It's a choice by this individual to go out into public
>>> without the use of an aide such as a cane, or guide, but
>>> their choice is sighted guide.  They are not posing a risk to
>>> anyone but themselves, but I can assure you that if this
>>> person was employed, the application might be viable.
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 6:53 AM
>>> To: nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: NFBnet Blind Talk Mailing List; Daniel Carr; NFBnet Blind
>>> Law Mailing List; NFB of Florida Internet Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Refusal To Use A Cane
>>> 
>>> Good morning everyone,
>>> 
>>>   An who belonged to our Florida Affiliate recently moved
>>> to San Antonio and wishes to join our chapter. This person is
>>> totally blind and absolutely refuses to use a cane. They
>>> recently showed up at our Christmas party and had to be
>>> helped in to and out of the meeting room we used for this event.
>>> Members were surprised when they discovered that this person
>>> showed up without their cane. When later questioned about
>>> this the person began giving us all manner of excuse. They
>>> told us that their neurologist and past O&M instructors
>>> recommended against the use of the cane due to this person's
>>> having seizures. This individual attended Perkins along with
>>> a number of other schools for the blind. I know for a fact
>>> that at least while at Perkins this individual lived in a
>>> cottage with another person who also has seizures and is one
>>> of the best travelers I know. Like this person, the confident
>>> cane user is totally blind and is someone I came to know
>>> well. The individual in question undoubtedly met many other
>>> successful blind cane users with other disabilities. I myself
>>> have seizures and sleep apnea and use both a cane and a dog
>>> depending on the situation.
>>> 
>>>   The individual refusing to use their cane has all ready
>>> been told by several members in the area that if they wish to
>>> visit them the/she must bring their cane and use it to get
>>> from their transportation in to our residence and if
>>> necessary use the cane during their visit.
>>> 
>>>   When attempting to reason with the person in question
>>> members have been accused of "Bullying" them and have heard
>>> all excuses in the book why he/she cannot use a cane
>>> proficiently. The individual has been told that neurologists
>>> are not qualified to determine whether or not the use of a
>>> travel aid can effect one's seizures. The evidence to the
>>> contrary is over whelmingly against this horsepuckey. As we
>>> also know not all blindness professionals have true belief in
>>> the capabilities of the blind. This individual obviously had
>>> a few such persons in their life to sell them short on their
>>> ability to travel independently and on the importance of
>>> using a cane or a dog. The individual has been told that if
>>> they show up at any of our homes without their cane we will
>>> call them a cab and promptly send them home at their expense
>>> something they can avoid simply by listening to reason and
>>> using their cane whenever traveling. We're busy people. The
>>> last thing we need to have to do is take someone to the
>>> emergency room when we know that an individual has complete
>>> disregard for their personal safety and as negligent. It
>>> seems like direct threat provisions of the ADA may apply in
>>> this situation where public venues are concerned. The lawyers
>>> can help us wit this one.
>>> 
>>>   We want to help this person achieve a higher degree of
>>> independence and be an active member of our chapter. While we
>>> won't prohibit them from joining us they'll be a more
>>> effective contributor to the cause if they would embrace the
>>> alternative techniques of blindness and use them regularly.
>>> Thanks for your help and suggestions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Peter Donahue
>>> 
>>> "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper."
>>> Isaiah 54:17
>>> 
>>> "While for our princes they prepare
>>> In caverns deep a burning snare,
>>> He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
>>> And the dark treachery brought to day."
>>> Anonymous
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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