[Blindtlk] blindtlk Digest, Vol 75, Issue 6

[Isaac Hebert]

Image of Deborah Kent Stein with her white cane.
Deborah Kent Stein]
The Optacon: Past, Present, and Future
by Deborah Kent Stein
>From the Editor: Several times in recent years we have published
articles lamenting Telesensory's decision to discontinue production of
the Optacon. Here is Deborah Kent Stein's discussion of this essential
tool in her life. The article first appeared in the September issue of
DIGIT-EYES: The Computer Users' Network News, published by the Blind
Service Association of Chicago. It is reprinted here by permission.
Debbie Stein is First Vice President of the National Federation of the
Blind of Illinois. This is what she says:
Like most blind people of my generation, I grew up with the futuristic
dream of the "reading machine." I had no idea what this magical
invention would look like or how it would work its miracles. But
somehow it would grant me entrance to the bookshelves of the world. I
would have the freedom to read whatever I wanted and needed without
waiting on the whim of some busy human intermediary.
For me the dream came true in the summer of 1977, when I obtained my
first Optacon through Associated Services for the Blind in
Philadelphia. I spent two weeks in Optacon training at ASB—the
standard time required by Telesensory Systems, Inc., the machine's
manufacturer. A special grant obtained through the dedication of ASB's
Fred Noesner covered 75 percent of the then-astronomical $3,400 cost,
bringing the purchase price within the range of most consumers. My
dream machine proved to be compact, lightweight, and highly portable.
The main unit contained a template or "array" with 144 tiny pins.
Connected to the main unit by a slender cable was a camera lens the
size and shape of a mini-flashlight. I learned to track the lens
across a printed line with my right hand while resting my left
forefinger lightly upon the array. The pins of the array vibrated to
create a tactile image of each letter viewed by the lens. I could
literally feel everything on the printed page.
As soon as I began using the Optacon, I made startling discoveries. I
learned that italicized letters are slightly tilted, that chapter
titles are sometimes offset with wavy lines or curlicues, that Penguin
Books uses a tiny penguin logo while Borzoi Books marks its title
pages with a running dog, that the first letter of the first word of a
chapter is usually so large it reaches down to the second or third
line. I had survived very nicely without knowing these things. Still
such details are an integral part of the world of print—the world from
which most people gather so much information and pleasure.
Without a doubt reading with the Optacon was slow. Through steady
practice I built my speed to about 100 words per minute, compared with
my Braille-reading speed of 250 words per minute or more. But reading
speed was not the issue. What mattered was access, and the Optacon
provided that. Books, newspapers, magazines, catalogues, bills, record
jackets, and the recipes on boxes of cake mix—the barriers were down,
and suddenly everything was within reach. For the first time friends
lent me their favorite books, sent me clippings, and dared to share
their private thoughts in typewritten letters.
"So what's the first thing that machine helped you do?" my aunt asked
when I brought the Optacon home from Philadelphia.
"I cleaned out my purse," I told her. It was true. I didn't plunge
straight into the latest bestseller. I emptied my purse onto the couch
and sorted through several weeks' accumulation of receipts, theater
programs, ticket stubs, and random scraps. In the past I would have
had to wait for the opportune moment with some patient friend or paid
reader who could help me weed out the debris. Perhaps I might simply
have taken the matter into my own hands, dumping everything into the
wastebasket and hoping I wasn't losing some crucial phone number or
appointment slip. Now, with the Optacon, I could check each
questionable paper and dispose of it as I saw fit, on my own time,
without having to let anyone else glimpse the rat's nest my purse had
become.
I have had a Kurzweil scanner since 1990. I no longer use the Optacon
for reading full-length books as I often did in the past. But the
scanner has never replaced the Optacon in any other regard. They are
both tools for accessing print, but each has its own unique strengths
and limitations. The scanner can read quickly through large blocks of
standard print. It enables me to store material on diskette for future
reference, thus building up a small library of books and articles. But
the scanner has strong views on what standard print really is. Poor to
moderately well-xeroxed copies, most newsprint, all faxes, print that
is unusually small or exceptionally large—all call forth the maddening
message: "Page too difficult, may be upside down!" Pages with more
than one column may be read accurately, as long as the space between
the columns isn't too narrow. Italicized words often turn into strings
of "unrecognized characters." And anything handwritten, no matter how
clearly, is totally out of bounds.
With the Optacon, on the other hand, the only limits are my time and
patience. With a bit of both I can read virtually anything. Cursive
handwriting is the only holdout; I can usually read handwriting if
people print. I can also examine charts and tables and can puzzle out
simple line drawings and maps. The underlying fact is that the scanner
interprets what it perceives, often in its own idiosyncratic fashion.
The Optacon shows me what is on the page and allows me to interpret
for myself.
When I got the Optacon twenty years ago, I believed it would be
available to blind people for as long as civilization endured. I never
imagined that the company that created and marketed this extraordinary
instrument would one day renounce it as obsolete. But by the mid
1980's TSI (the descendant of Telesensory) had moved on to other, more
lucrative products. It promoted the Optacon, even the newest model,
with waning enthusiasm. In 1996 came the dreaded proclamation. The
Optacon would no longer be manufactured. Old machines will be serviced
"until the turn of the century," unless the parts run out sooner. The
Optacon is an essential part of my life. In my work as a freelance
writer I turn to it a hundred times in the course of the day—to check
a page number for a footnote, to make sure the margins are correct on
a printed page, to check whether my printer needs a fresh ribbon.
Beyond my working life the Optacon is just as important. I can browse
through gift catalogues before Christmas and birthdays. I can sort the
mail and read the pieces that are addressed to me. I can use the
dictionary, the encyclopedia, and even the Yellow Pages. Without the
Optacon I could not do any of these things independently. Each of
these small but necessary tasks, plus dozens and dozens more, could be
done only with another person's assistance.
The Optacon has given blind people a level of autonomy and flexibility
unparalleled in history. Yet that gift is being withdrawn. That sense
of freedom, that knowledge that print poses no barriers, may be lost
to future generations. As a devoted Optacon user I belong to a
minority within the blind community. We spend a lot of time worrying,
raging, strategizing, and mourning. We stockpile used machines, buying
them up at every opportunity. With renewed hope we pursue each rumor
that another company will buy up parts, will service old machines,
will build new ones. We tell each other that something has to be done.
We try to carry that message to the world.
For the most part the response is not encouraging. We are told that
the Optacon brought blind people into the age of technology, but its
day is done. It will be remembered fondly, like the party line and the
wind-up Victrola. After all, no company wants to invest in a dead-end
product—in technology without a future.
Right now the blind community is focused upon another technological
crisis. Looming before us is the growing use of graphics in household
products that were once accessible with ease—microwave ovens, tape
decks, VCR's, clocks, and even telephones. How can we continue to
compete in this increasingly icon-oriented world?
Programmers are employing all their wizardry to make these new gadgets
talk to us. They're struggling to turn each new icon into speech. To
some extent they have been successful. But every new gadget requires
tampering; each manufacturer must be bargained with. The struggle
looks to be endless. According to the proverb, a picture is worth a
thousand words. At best speech is an awkward medium with which to
represent graphics. One often needs to know the layout of the screen,
where the image appears, and how it changes when a button is pressed.
Surely there is another approach to the whole problem, one that does
not depend on speech at all. Why not develop a device to enable blind
people to read the screen tactually? Why not turn visual graphics into
tactile images?
This notion is not as farfetched as it may sound. For more than two
decades Optacon users have been reading computer screens with a
specially-designed lens attachment. The Optacon has proved highly
useful for navigating in Windows and other graphically-based
environments. Couldn't this technology be enhanced to meet the
challenges before us? Instead of trying to make each new gadget talk,
we could carry a simple hand-held device that would enable us to read
any screen we encounter, whether on an ATM machine or the new clothes
dryer. The Optacon was at the cutting edge of technology when it
appeared in the early 1970's. Instead of tossing that technology onto
the rubbish heap, let us carry it forward and see what the future may
bring.
For my part, I just want to go on reading my mail and cleaning out my
own purse. Those may seem like small things, but they have a lot to do
with large issues—such as privacy, dignity, and self-respect.
(Deborah Kent Stein is a nationally-known freelance writer. Among her
more than fifteen books available through the Library for the Blind
and Physically Handicapped are Belonging, Jody, Ohio, One Step at a
Time, and Te Amo Means I Love You.)

On 9/6/12, blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org <blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send blindtlk mailing list submissions to
> 	blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	blindtlk-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	blindtlk-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of blindtlk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: devices RE: introduction (Jasmine Kotsay)
>    2. Re: devices RE: introduction (Jasmine Kotsay)
>    3. Re: devices RE: introduction (Judy Jones)
>    4. Re: devices RE: introduction (Mike Freeman)
>    5. Re: devices RE: introduction (Mike Freeman)
>    6. Re: devices RE: introduction (Jasmine Kotsay)
>    7. Re: devices RE: introduction (Jasmine Kotsay)
>    8. Re: devices RE: introduction (Hyde, David W. (ESC))
>    9. Re: devices RE: introduction (David Evans)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:22:57 -0700
> From: Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <5047d0ce.88d2440a.5884.1246 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
> 	Until now, I've never heard ofan
> Opticon.  It actually reads handwriting? What actually is an
> Opticon?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk
> Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>
> Hi, Chris,
>
> I am 28 but  have many   a blind friend who love their opticons,
> for
> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and
> other
> things that OCR, frankly  pukes on.
>
> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting.  so No, the
> opticon
> is not obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never  will be
> despite
> Telesensory's haveing gone under.  At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike
> Freeman wrote:
> Hi, chris.
>
> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype.  In fact, the
> fastest Optacon
> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.
> However, the only
> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of
> the human
> brain.  So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the
> accessibility
> concerns we do today because if the Optacon could display it and
> "it" --
> whatever it was -- was relatively uniform (handwriting is not),
> one could
> read it.  So I disagree that the Optacon is obsolete.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I agree with you about the Stream.  As far as Humanware's tech
> support, ugh;
> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor
> in my area
> that actually provides good tech support.  Once I found out that
> I'm their
> customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed
> to provide
> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware
> when I have
> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>
> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm
> a
> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the
> Optacon is
> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me
> of an
> older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
> different
> way.  I personally found it very difficult and tedious to read
> with, probably
> because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.  However, I'm
> sure that with
> time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with the
> Optacon.  I
> can definitely see where it was a great piece of technology in
> the time when
> it was new, but I think newer and better technology such as
> Braille
> displays, scan-and-read software and screen readers has made the
> Optacon
> obsolete.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Jasmine:
>
> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also
> an
> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
> Premium.
> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS
> B32 note-taker
> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor
> Reader Stream
> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the
> market even
> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than
> for the
> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a
> working
> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Hi Jasmine,
>
> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and
> JAWS 12, a
> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Hi,
>          No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
> :)
>          I was wondering what types of
> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with
> JAWS, or any
> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I
> know some
> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jasmine
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
> 2 Sep 2012
> 19:18:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>
> Again, welcome.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even
> walk
> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same
> way.
>
>   -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>   Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside
> still?
>
>   Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people
> should go
> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but,
> never ever ever
> blindness.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and
> now I'm in
> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>
>   -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>   Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   Hey, another one.
>
>   Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the
> conversations that
> go on.
>   As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm
> always
> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
> LOL!!
>
>   Sincerely,
>   Jasmine
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   Oh, let's see.
>
>   One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind
> person should
> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>
>   Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that
> may well
> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>
>   Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very
> often,
> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
> something,
> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the
> matter.
> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted
> here.  IF our
> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such
> requests
> can be found here.
> HTH.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   Hi!
>   That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they
> had some
> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things
> are talked
> about.  :)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but,
> please call
> me Ray.  I insist.
>
>   Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by
> which I
> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions
> the like of
> which you will find quite stimulating.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   Hello,
>   I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
> immediately
> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out
> new things
> about blind people.
>
>   Sincerely,
>   Jasmine
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>   att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>   say%40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>   att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>   say%40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
> ix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
> ix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40
> comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 15:22:59 -0700
> From: Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <5047d0d0.88d2440a.5884.1249 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
> That's awesome! I also use a Stream, and have NVDA on my laptop.
> Howd you like it? Which screen reader do you prefer?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 17:11:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>
> Jasmine:
>
> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also
> an
> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
> Premium.
> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS
> B32 note-taker
> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor
> Reader Stream
> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the
> market even
> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than
> for the
> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a
> working
> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Hi Jasmine,
>
> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and
> JAWS 12, a
> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Hi,
> 	No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
> :)
> 	I was wondering what types of
> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with
> JAWS, or any
> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I
> know some
> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jasmine
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
> 2 Sep 2012
> 19:18:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>
> Again, welcome.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>    Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even
> walk
> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same
> way.
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside
> still?
>
>  Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people
> should go
> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but,
> never ever ever
> blindness.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and
> now I'm in
> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  Hey, another one.
>
>  Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the
> conversations that
> go on.
>  As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm
> always
> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
> LOL!!
>
>  Sincerely,
>  Jasmine
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  Oh, let's see.
>
>  One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind
> person should
> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>
>  Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that
> may well
> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>
>  Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very
> often,
> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
> something,
> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the
> matter.
> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted
> here.  IF our
> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such
> requests
> can be found here.
> HTH.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  Hi!
>  That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they
> had some
> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things
> are talked
> about.  :)
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but,
> please call
> me Ray.  I insist.
>
>  Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by
> which I
> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions
> the like of
> which you will find quite stimulating.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>  I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
> immediately
> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out
> new things
> about blind people.
>
>  Sincerely,
>  Jasmine
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>  att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>  say%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>  att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>  say%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
> ix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:13:57 -0600
> From: "Judy Jones" <jtj1 at cableone.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <BEFA3E0D47F2477BA49B101613C683A5 at JudyPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
> Hi, Jasmine.
>
> The optacon is about 3 inches thick and about 8 inches long.  Attached at
> the front is a cord attached to a hand camera that is similar in shape to a
>
> small hand microphone one used to see with cassette recorders.  In fact, the
>
> optacon is the size of an off-the-shelf cassette recorder, not the walkman,
>
> but smaller than the library cassette player.
>
> In the front is a concave display that contours to the index finger.  The
> user learns to track a printed page with the camera in one hand, and read
> the display with the index finger of the other hand.  The printed character
>
> comes up in raised fashion in the display.  Fast vibrating rods in the
> display are what form the shape of the character.
>
> There is a learning curve to using one, and the vibrations of the display
> takes getting used to.  Also, the user needs to know their print letters,
> numbers and symbols.  In the training materials, you could get thermoformed
>
> sheets of these to learn.  The same was true for the cursive characters.
>
> When tracking correctly, letters appear in the display moving from right to
>
> left so you are reading the first letter, the second, third and so on.
> Sighted friends have told me it's like the way in which news reels text
> would scroll across the movie screen.
>
> Telesensory also used to make an attachment to allow one to proof a page in
>
> a typewriter while typing, and also an accessory for reading computer
> screens, but I have never seen these.  Depending on the shading, I can read
>
> computer screens, but not very well.  It depends on the contrast.
>
> You could also set the optacon to read negative images i.e. light on dark.
>
> Judy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasmine Kotsay" <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
>
>> Hi,
>> Until now, I've never heard ofan Opticon.  It actually reads handwriting?
>>
>> What actually is an Opticon?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk Mailing
>> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>>
>> Hi, Chris,
>>
>> I am 28 but  have many   a blind friend who love their opticons, for
>> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and other
>> things that OCR, frankly  pukes on.
>>
>> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting.  so No, the opticon
>> is not obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never  will be despite
>> Telesensory's haveing gone under.  At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike Freeman
>> wrote:
>> Hi, chris.
>>
>> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype.  In fact, the fastest
>> Optacon
>> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.  However, the
>> only
>> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of the
>> human
>> brain.  So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the accessibility
>> concerns we do today because if the Optacon could display it and "it" --
>> whatever it was -- was relatively uniform (handwriting is not), one could
>> read it.  So I disagree that the Optacon is obsolete.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I agree with you about the Stream.  As far as Humanware's tech support,
>> ugh;
>> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor in my
>> area
>> that actually provides good tech support.  Once I found out that I'm
>> their
>> customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed to
>> provide
>> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware when I
>> have
>> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>>
>> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm a
>> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the Optacon
>> is
>> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me of an
>> older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
>> different
>> way.  I personally found it very difficult and tedious to read with,
>> probably
>> because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.  However, I'm sure that
>> with
>> time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with the Optacon.
>> I
>> can definitely see where it was a great piece of technology in the time
>> when
>> it was new, but I think newer and better technology such as Braille
>> displays, scan-and-read software and screen readers has made the Optacon
>> obsolete.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Jasmine:
>>
>> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
>> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
>> Premium.
>> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS B32
>> note-taker
>> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor Reader Stream
>> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the market
>> even
>> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
>> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a working
>> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Jasmine,
>>
>> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS 12, a
>> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Hi,
>>         No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
>> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
>> :)
>>         I was wondering what types of
>> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or
>> any
>> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I know
>> some
>> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun, 2 Sep
>> 2012
>> 19:18:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>>
>> Again, welcome.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>    Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even walk
>> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same way.
>>
>>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside still?
>>
>>  Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
>> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never ever
>> ever
>> blindness.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now I'm
>> in
>> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>>
>>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  Hey, another one.
>>
>>  Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations
>> that
>> go on.
>>  As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
>> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
>> LOL!!
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Jasmine
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  Oh, let's see.
>>
>>  One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person
>> should
>> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>>
>>  Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may well
>> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>>
>>  Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very often,
>> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
>> something,
>> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
>> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.  IF
>> our
>> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such requests
>> can be found here.
>> HTH.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi!
>>  That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had some
>> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things are
>> talked
>> about.  :)
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but, please
>> call
>> me Ray.  I insist.
>>
>>  Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which I
>> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the like
>> of
>> which you will find quite stimulating.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>  I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
>> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
>> immediately
>> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new
>> things
>> about blind people.
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Jasmine
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>  att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>  say%40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>  att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>  say%40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>> ix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>> ix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40
>> comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jtj1%40cableone.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 19:19:33 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <000201cd8bd6$0e6ed860$2b4c8920$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jasmine:
>
> The Optacon doesn't actually read anything: you use the Optacon to read
> stuff using your own brain and fingers. Some people can read handwriting;
> others cannot. I never mastered that skill. However, I could read line
> drawings and some maps. Judy Jones has given you a decent description of
> the
> Optacon.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:23 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
> Hi,
> 	Until now, I've never heard ofan
> Opticon.  It actually reads handwriting? What actually is an Opticon?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk Mailing
> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>
> Hi, Chris,
>
> I am 28 but  have many   a blind friend who love their opticons,
> for
> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and other things
> that OCR, frankly  pukes on.
>
> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting.  so No, the opticon is not
> obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never  will be despite Telesensory's
> haveing gone under.  At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike Freeman wrote:
> Hi, chris.
>
> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype.  In fact, the fastest Optacon
> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.
> However, the only
> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of the human
> brain.  So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the accessibility
> concerns we do today because if the Optacon could display it and "it" --
> whatever it was -- was relatively uniform (handwriting is not), one could
> read it.  So I disagree that the Optacon is obsolete.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I agree with you about the Stream.  As far as Humanware's tech
> support, ugh;
> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor
> in my area
> that actually provides good tech support.  Once I found out that
> I'm their
> customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed
> to provide
> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware
> when I have
> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>
> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm
> a
> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the
> Optacon is
> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me
> of an
> older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
> different
> way.  I personally found it very difficult and tedious to read
> with, probably
> because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.  However, I'm
> sure that with
> time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with the
> Optacon.  I
> can definitely see where it was a great piece of technology in
> the time when
> it was new, but I think newer and better technology such as
> Braille
> displays, scan-and-read software and screen readers has made the
> Optacon
> obsolete.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Jasmine:
>
> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also
> an
> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
> Premium.
> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS
> B32 note-taker
> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor
> Reader Stream
> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the
> market even
> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than
> for the
> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a
> working
> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Hi Jasmine,
>
> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and
> JAWS 12, a
> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Hi,
>          No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
> :)
>          I was wondering what types of
> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with
> JAWS, or any
> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I
> know some
> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jasmine
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
> 2 Sep 2012
> 19:18:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>
> Again, welcome.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even
> walk
> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same
> way.
>
>   -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>   Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside
> still?
>
>   Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people
> should go
> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but,
> never ever ever
> blindness.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and
> now I'm in
> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>
>   -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>   Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   Hey, another one.
>
>   Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the
> conversations that
> go on.
>   As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm
> always
> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
> LOL!!
>
>   Sincerely,
>   Jasmine
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   Oh, let's see.
>
>   One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind
> person should
> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>
>   Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that
> may well
> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>
>   Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very
> often,
> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
> something,
> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the
> matter.
> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted
> here.  IF our
> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such
> requests
> can be found here.
> HTH.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   Hi!
>   That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they
> had some
> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things
> are talked
> about.  :)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>   To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>   Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but,
> please call
> me Ray.  I insist.
>
>   Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by
> which I
> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions
> the like of
> which you will find quite stimulating.
>
>
>   Sincerely,
>   The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>   Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>   Skype name:
>   barefootedray
>
>   On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay
> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>   Hello,
>   I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
> immediately
> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out
> new things
> about blind people.
>
>   Sincerely,
>   Jasmine
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>   att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>   say%40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>   att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>   say%40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   blindtlk mailing list
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
> ix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
> ix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40
> comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 19:21:31 -0700
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <000301cd8bd6$6dc93ee0$495bbca0$@panix.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> I prefer JAWS, partly because I've used it for many years so know something
> of its tips, tricks and quirks, and partly because it handles Word files
> and
> files from other applications I use better than does the competition.
> However, NVDA works better under some circumstances -- like the Adobe Flash
> updater. However, the last time it ran, it was quite accessible using JAWS,
> being largely links into a web page.
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:23 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
> Hi,
> That's awesome! I also use a Stream, and have NVDA on my laptop.
> Howd you like it? Which screen reader do you prefer?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 3 Sep
> 2012 17:11:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>
> Jasmine:
>
> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home Premium.
> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS
> B32 note-taker
> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor Reader Stream
> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the market
> even
> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a working
> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>
> Mike Freeman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>
> Hi Jasmine,
>
> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS 12, a
> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Hi,
> 	No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
> :)
> 	I was wondering what types of
> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or any
> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I know some
> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jasmine
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
> 2 Sep 2012
> 19:18:46 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>
> Again, welcome.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
> Skype name:
> barefootedray
>
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>    Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even walk
> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same way.
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside still?
>
>  Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never ever
> ever
> blindness.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now I'm in
> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  Hey, another one.
>
>  Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations that
> go on.
>  As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
> LOL!!
>
>  Sincerely,
>  Jasmine
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  Oh, let's see.
>
>  One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person should
> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>
>  Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may well
> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>
>  Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very often,
> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
> something,
> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.  IF our
> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such requests
> can be found here.
> HTH.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  Hi!
>  That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had some
> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things are talked
> about.  :)
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
> Sat, 1 Sep
> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>
>  Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but, please call
> me Ray.  I insist.
>
>  Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which I
> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the like of
> which you will find quite stimulating.
>
>
>  Sincerely,
>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>  Skype name:
>  barefootedray
>
>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>  I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
> immediately
> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new things
> about blind people.
>
>  Sincerely,
>  Jasmine
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>  att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>  say%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>  att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>  say%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
> 40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  blindtlk mailing list
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
> att.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
> ix.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
> say%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:24:56 -0700
> From: Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <FF908B36-625A-4EA9-9143-230410A2BD2F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> I like JAWS best also. :)
>
> Sent from my iPod Touch
>
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 7:21 PM, "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>
>> I prefer JAWS, partly because I've used it for many years so know
>> something
>> of its tips, tricks and quirks, and partly because it handles Word files
>> and
>> files from other applications I use better than does the competition.
>> However, NVDA works better under some circumstances -- like the Adobe
>> Flash
>> updater. However, the last time it ran, it was quite accessible using
>> JAWS,
>> being largely links into a web page.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:23 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi,
>> That's awesome! I also use a Stream, and have NVDA on my laptop.
>> Howd you like it? Which screen reader do you prefer?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com
>> To: "'Blind Talk Mailing List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 3
>> Sep
>> 2012 17:11:44 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>>
>> Jasmine:
>>
>> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
>> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
>> Premium.
>> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS
>> B32 note-taker
>> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor Reader Stream
>> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the market
>> even
>> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
>> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a working
>> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Jasmine,
>>
>> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS 12, a
>> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Hi,
>>    No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
>> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
>> :)
>>    I was wondering what types of
>> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or
>> any
>> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I know
>> some
>> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun,
>> 2 Sep 2012
>> 19:18:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>>
>> Again, welcome.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>   Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even walk
>> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same way.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside still?
>>
>> Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
>> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never ever
>> ever
>> blindness.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now I'm in
>> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Hey, another one.
>>
>> Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations
>> that
>> go on.
>> As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
>> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
>> LOL!!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
>> Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Oh, let's see.
>>
>> One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person should
>> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>>
>> Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may well
>> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>>
>> Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very often,
>> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
>> something,
>> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
>> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.  IF
>> our
>> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such requests
>> can be found here.
>> HTH.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>> That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had some
>> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things are
>> talked
>> about.  :)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent:
>> Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but, please call
>> me Ray.  I insist.
>>
>> Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which I
>> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the like
>> of
>> which you will find quite stimulating.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
>> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
>> immediately
>> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new
>> things
>> about blind people.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>> ix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kotsay%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:36:38 -0700
> From: Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <544A9BA5-ADA6-4F19-AF0D-017E470102F1 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> That sounds awesome! I would love to see one of those! Do you have to read
> while you track with the camera, or could each page be saved?
>
>
> Sent from my iPod Touch
>
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:13 PM, "Judy Jones" <jtj1 at cableone.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Jasmine.
>>
>> The optacon is about 3 inches thick and about 8 inches long.  Attached at
>> the front is a cord attached to a hand camera that is similar in shape to
>> a small hand microphone one used to see with cassette recorders.  In fact,
>> the optacon is the size of an off-the-shelf cassette recorder, not the
>> walkman, but smaller than the library cassette player.
>>
>> In the front is a concave display that contours to the index finger.  The
>> user learns to track a printed page with the camera in one hand, and read
>> the display with the index finger of the other hand.  The printed
>> character comes up in raised fashion in the display.  Fast vibrating rods
>> in the display are what form the shape of the character.
>>
>> There is a learning curve to using one, and the vibrations of the display
>> takes getting used to.  Also, the user needs to know their print letters,
>> numbers and symbols.  In the training materials, you could get
>> thermoformed sheets of these to learn.  The same was true for the cursive
>> characters.
>>
>> When tracking correctly, letters appear in the display moving from right
>> to left so you are reading the first letter, the second, third and so on.
>> Sighted friends have told me it's like the way in which news reels text
>> would scroll across the movie screen.
>>
>> Telesensory also used to make an attachment to allow one to proof a page
>> in a typewriter while typing, and also an accessory for reading computer
>> screens, but I have never seen these.  Depending on the shading, I can
>> read computer screens, but not very well.  It depends on the contrast.
>>
>> You could also set the optacon to read negative images i.e. light on
>> dark.
>>
>> Judy
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jasmine Kotsay"
>> <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
>> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Until now, I've never heard ofan Opticon.  It actually reads handwriting?
>>> What actually is an Opticon?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk Mailing
>>> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>>>
>>> Hi, Chris,
>>>
>>> I am 28 but  have many   a blind friend who love their opticons, for
>>> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and other
>>> things that OCR, frankly  pukes on.
>>>
>>> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting.  so No, the opticon
>>> is not obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never  will be despite
>>> Telesensory's haveing gone under.  At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike Freeman
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi, chris.
>>>
>>> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype.  In fact, the fastest
>>> Optacon
>>> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.  However, the
>>> only
>>> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of the
>>> human
>>> brain.  So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the accessibility
>>> concerns we do today because if the Optacon could display it and "it" --
>>> whatever it was -- was relatively uniform (handwriting is not), one
>>> could
>>> read it.  So I disagree that the Optacon is obsolete.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> I agree with you about the Stream.  As far as Humanware's tech support,
>>> ugh;
>>> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor in my
>>> area
>>> that actually provides good tech support.  Once I found out that I'm
>>> their
>>> customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed to
>>> provide
>>> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware when I
>>> have
>>> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>>>
>>> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm a
>>> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the Optacon
>>> is
>>> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me of an
>>> older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
>>> different
>>> way.  I personally found it very difficult and tedious to read with,
>>> probably
>>> because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.  However, I'm sure that
>>> with
>>> time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with the Optacon.
>>> I
>>> can definitely see where it was a great piece of technology in the time
>>> when
>>> it was new, but I think newer and better technology such as Braille
>>> displays, scan-and-read software and screen readers has made the Optacon
>>> obsolete.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>>
>>> Jasmine:
>>>
>>> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
>>> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
>>> Premium.
>>> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS B32
>>> note-taker
>>> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor Reader
>>> Stream
>>> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the market
>>> even
>>> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
>>> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a working
>>> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>>
>>> Hi Jasmine,
>>>
>>> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS 12,
>>> a
>>> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>        No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
>>> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
>>> :)
>>>        I was wondering what types of
>>> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or
>>> any
>>> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I know
>>> some
>>> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Jasmine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun, 2 Sep
>>> 2012
>>> 19:18:46 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>>
>>> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>>>
>>> Again, welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even walk
>>> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same way.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>>
>>> wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside still?
>>>
>>> Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
>>> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never ever
>>> ever
>>> blindness.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now I'm
>>> in
>>> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>>
>>> Hey, another one.
>>>
>>> Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations
>>> that
>>> go on.
>>> As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
>>> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
>>> LOL!!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Jasmine
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 1 Sep
>>> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>>
>>> Oh, let's see.
>>>
>>> One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person
>>> should
>>> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>>>
>>> Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may well
>>> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>>>
>>> Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very often,
>>> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
>>> something,
>>> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
>>> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.  IF
>>> our
>>> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such
>>> requests
>>> can be found here.
>>> HTH.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi!
>>> That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had some
>>> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things are
>>> talked
>>> about.  :)
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 1 Sep
>>> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>>
>>> Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but, please
>>> call
>>> me Ray.  I insist.
>>>
>>> Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which I
>>> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the like
>>> of
>>> which you will find quite stimulating.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>>>
>>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
>>> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
>>> immediately
>>> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new
>>> things
>>> about blind people.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Jasmine
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>> att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>> say%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>> att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>> say%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>> att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>> att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>> att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>> say%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>> aum%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>>> ix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>> aum%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>>> ix.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40
>>> comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>> say%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jtj1%40cableone.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kotsay%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 07:49:01 -0500
> From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us>
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <8FE3DA4A52652B4D8EC80883B3DC12338CC053B0A0 at tiger>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jasmin, the Optacon had no storage for files. Back when it was in use,
> computers were just becoming available, and when it was introduced, they
> took up buildings. You read, took notes, and remembered. So the storage was
> limited to your own capacity.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 10:07:33 -0400
> From: "David Evans" <drevans at bellsouth.net>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
> Message-ID: <363A8E56E0C648589465327651076FA4 at DAVID>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
>
> Dear Jaz,
>
> It is a flat box with a small camera attached to a cable.
> As you pass the camera over something, the image is reproduced on the front
>
> of the box by small, vibrating pins that pop up and form the outline of the
>
> image the camera sees.
> You can read print letters or even some hand writing or get the "feel" of
> other objects pictured by the image..
> That is basically what it it is and what it does.
> It can even read print on a TV screen like those 800 numbers they tell you
> to call to order something, but never say the number out loud.
>
> David Evans and GD Jack.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jasmine Kotsay" <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com>
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices RE: introduction
>
>
>> Hi,
>> Until now, I've never heard ofan Opticon.  It actually reads handwriting?
>>
>> What actually is an Opticon?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>,"'Blind Talk Mailing
>> List'" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 03 Sep 2012 18:56:46 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE:  introduction
>>
>> Hi, Chris,
>>
>> I am 28 but  have many   a blind friend who love their opticons, for
>> those many, many applications such as reading handwriting and other
>> things that OCR, frankly  pukes on.
>>
>> Name me a digital divice that reads handwriting.  so No, the opticon
>> is not obsolete and, so far as I'm concerned never  will be despite
>> Telesensory's haveing gone under.  At 06:45 PM 9/3/2012, Mike Freeman
>> wrote:
>> Hi, chris.
>>
>> The Optacon was the subject of a lot of hype.  In fact, the fastest
>> Optacon
>> users never got much beyond 100 or 120 words per minute.  However, the
>> only
>> real limit to what an Optacon could read was the comprehension of the
>> human
>> brain.  So I would argue that we didn't *have* many of the accessibility
>> concerns we do today because if the Optacon could display it and "it" --
>> whatever it was -- was relatively uniform (handwriting is not), one could
>> read it.  So I disagree that the Optacon is obsolete.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:28 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> I agree with you about the Stream.  As far as Humanware's tech support,
>> ugh;
>> don't remind me! Thank God I've got a local Humanware distributor in my
>> area
>> that actually provides good tech support.  Once I found out that I'm
>> their
>> customer, not Humanware's, and they're the ones who are supposed to
>> provide
>> me with technical support, I don't even bother calling Humanware when I
>> have
>> a problem with either my BrailleNote or my Stream.
>>
>> As to the Optacon, you may be surprised to know that although I'm a
>> 14-year-old freshman in high school, I do actually know what the Optacon
>> is
>> and have seen one in action! The concept of it sort of reminds me of an
>> older KNFB Reader, although it conveys the information in a very
>> different
>> way.  I personally found it very difficult and tedious to read with,
>> probably
>> because I'm a Braille guy and always have been.  However, I'm sure that
>> with
>> time and practice one can get relatively fast reading with the Optacon.
>> I
>> can definitely see where it was a great piece of technology in the time
>> when
>> it was new, but I think newer and better technology such as Braille
>> displays, scan-and-read software and screen readers has made the Optacon
>> obsolete.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 8:12 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Jasmine:
>>
>> I use a fancy windows 7 laptop with multiple sound cards and also an
>> external DECtalk USB synthesizer; the machine runs Windows 7 Home
>> Premium.
>> Screen-readers are JAWS 13 and NVDA.  I use a BraillesensePLUS B32
>> note-taker
>> from HIMS as well as a BookSense from HIMS.  I use a Victor Reader Stream
>> which IMO overall is still the best portable DAISY player on the market
>> even
>> though I'm not enamered of HumanWare's tech support other than for the
>> Stream at the moment.  I use an iPhone 4.  I also still have a working
>> Optacon.  I suppose that about does it.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:21 PM
>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] devices was RE: introduction
>>
>> Hi Jasmine,
>>
>> For me it's a BrailleNote Apex, a laptop running Windows 7 and JAWS 12, a
>> Victor Reader Stream, and (my favorite) an iPod Touch!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jasmine Kotsay
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 4:38 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Hi,
>>         No, I didn't expect it, but I'm
>> glad that this is a place both to talk seriously and have fun.
>> :)
>>         I was wondering what types of
>> devices some of you use, such as BrailleNotes, computers with JAWS, or
>> any
>> others.  I've already asked a couple of you this question, and I know
>> some
>> are on the BrailleNote list, but I'm curious.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Jasmine
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sun, 2 Sep
>> 2012
>> 19:18:46 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>> Wow.  I bet Jasmine didn't expect this when she joined us.
>>
>> Again, welcome.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>> Skype name:
>> barefootedray
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2012, at 7:14 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>    Oh yeah! I'm really not afraid of anything.  Haha.  I'll even walk
>> outside in the snow barefooted, if I had to.  My dad is the same way.
>>
>>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 6:53 PM
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  wow, Nikki, that's very cool!!!  Do you go barefooted outside still?
>>
>>  Way back when that person asked whether or not blind people should go
>> barefooted, I answered that it depended on many things, but, never ever
>> ever
>> blindness.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 6:40 PM, "Nikki" <daizies304 at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hey Ray, I have been considered a barefoot kid all my life and now I'm
>> in
>> my 30's loving it.  LOL!
>>
>>  -----Original Message----- From: Ray Foret Jr
>>  Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:51 PM
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  Hey, another one.
>>
>>  Well, whether or not, welcome anyhow.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 2, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  That sounds great! I look forward to seeing some of the conversations
>> that
>> go on.
>>  As to going barefooted, as long as it's not freezing cold, I'm always
>> barefooted in the house.  Outside, though...  Not so much.
>> LOL!!
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Jasmine
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 17:02:28 -0500
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  Oh, let's see.
>>
>>  One time, somebody asked the question as to whether a blind person
>> should
>> go barefooted or not.  Guess by my signature what I said.
>>
>>  Actually, I said that, whether or not a blind person does that may well
>> depend on many things; but, never should it depend on blindness.
>>
>>  Well, that's the lighter side.  We do, however  and very very often,
>> discuss some very serious matters here.  Somebody wants help with
>> something,
>> for example, we try to offer the best advice we can on the matter.
>> Important NFB news updates with respect to the NFB are posted here.  IF
>> our
>> help is needed with respect to various legislative matters, such requests
>> can be found here.
>> HTH.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 3:02 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi!
>>  That's great! What kinds of topics do you discuss? I think they had some
>> examples on the website, but I'm curious as to what other things are
>> talked
>> about.  :)
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Ray Foret Jr <rforetjr at att.net
>>  To: Blind Talk Mailing List <blindtlk at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 1 Sep
>> 2012 14:29:00 -0500
>>  Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] introduction
>>
>>  Well, Jasmine, welcome to the list.  My name is Raymond; but, please
>> call
>> me Ray.  I insist.
>>
>>  Anyhow, we tend to have some interesting times on this list; by which I
>> mean, we usually all get along quite well and have discussions the like
>> of
>> which you will find quite stimulating.
>>
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>  Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>  Skype name:
>>  barefootedray
>>
>>  On Sep 1, 2012, at 2:18 PM, Jasmine Kotsay <jasmine.kotsay at gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Hello,
>>  I wanted to introduce myself to this list.  My name is Jasmine.
>> When I came upon the name of this list on the NFB website, I was
>> immediately
>> interested.  I have no sight, and I'm always curious to find out new
>> things
>> about blind people.
>>
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Jasmine
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>  att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>  say%40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>>  att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>>  say%40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/daizies304%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  blindtlk mailing list
>>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/rforetjr%40
>> att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>> ix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40pan
>> ix.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40
>> comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/jasmine.kot
>> say%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/drevans%40bellsouth.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of blindtlk Digest, Vol 75, Issue 6
> ***************************************
>