[Blindtlk] {Spam?} RE: [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
Hyde, David W. (ESC)
david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us
Fri Sep 2 13:16:08 UTC 2016
I think what Brian is referring to in the 1/3 responsible for an accident just for being there, is negligence. If a judge determined that the blind person was at fault for being where the accident happened, this is a misinterpretation of law. Such would constitute use of contributory negligence, which is clearly excluded under white cane laws. If, however, one does something which contributes to the accident, that is considered contributory negligence. Such is allowed.
Such occurrences might include crossing against a light, failure to use due diligence in checking for traffic.
Finally, I know that the NFB did initiate the model white cane law.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jude DaShiell via blindtlk
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
Cc: Jude DaShiell
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
I wonder, is 1/3 of the blame put on each gunshot victim just for being there too, or are the blind somehow special?
On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, Bryan Schulz via blindtlk wrote:
> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 00:27:04
> From: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
>
> Hi,
>
> The knowledge was nil 22 years ago.
> Bryan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Ericka via blindtlk
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:04 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
> Cc: Ericka
> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
>
> Did acb? I inquired about some things from them in the past. Not once
> in my forty some years did i get a return call!!! At least u get
> answers most of the timefrom NFB.
>
> Ericka Short
> 1750 Fordem Ave. #508
> Madison. WI. 53704
> 608-665-3170
>
> from my iPhone 6s
>
>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 10:01 PM, Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Tell me how great the nfb is when they can't stop the law from saying
>> one third of the blame for an accident was the fault of the blind
>> person just being there?
>> The nfb didn't go to court for that case!
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Carly Mihalakis via blindtlk
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:45 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: Carly Mihalakis
>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
>>
>> Every day is white cane day!At 05:29 PM 10/2/2015, Ericka via
>> blindtlk
>> wrote:
>>> Hi Bob and all
>>>
>>> I love your idea of getting the DMV, police etc. involved. I just
>>> spoke to the aging and disability resource center today to inquire
>>> whether they were doing anything community education about White
>>> cane day coming up. When the lady at the desk gave me the Hem and
>>> haw over answering my question I figured the answer was no. She did
>>> give me the name of someone who does a lot of the community events.
>>> I love the notice for this Paula person and she did call me right
>>> back this afternoon. Unfortunately I was already at my next stop,
>>> the grocery store and missed the call. So we'll see how things go on
>>> Monday. We are having a fun and fit fair for people with
>>> disabilities coming up. Maybe this can be incorporated somehow
>>> although it's last minute. After all, walking in your community is
>>> not just independence and getting your mines done; it's also keeping
>>> yourself healthy and fit too. Many times doctors tell you to walk to
>>> lose weight etc. We can still hear the birds and the rustle of trees
>>> so there's benefit and it relates.
>>>
>>> Ericka Short
>>> "Friends are like flowers in the garden of life"
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Sep 28, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Bob Hachey via blindtlk
>>> <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>> I hear you loud and clear. Seems that driving in America is the
>>>> fourth inalienable right, up there with life, liberty and the
>>>> pursuit of
>>> happiness.
>>>> While it is we the pedestrians who have been given this right by
>>>> law in theory, in practice, the rights seem to go to the driver, no
>>>> matter how careless or thoughtless that driver may be.
>>>> Perhaps instead of raising a cane to call attention to ourselves
>>> we ought to
>>>> raise Cain, (note spelling)
>>>> And, I'm not joking.
>>>> I love the idea of White cane day which is coming soon. But I wish
>>>> we
>> could
>>>> be more successful at getting not just the usual folks from the
>> Commission
>>>> for the Blind involved, but the registry of motor vehicles, local
>> police,
>>>> etc.
>>>> Bob Hachey
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Mark Tardif
>>>> via blindtlk
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:28 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Mark Tardif
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
>>>>
>>>> There is something about some people who, when they get behind the
>> wheel,
>>>> turn into creatures you and I wouldn't recognize. Joking, but just
>> barely.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark Tardif
>>>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:52 PM
>>>> To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
>>>>
>>>> Arrielle:
>>>>
>>>> I don't worry much about getting cars to conform to a certain
>>>> behavior pattern because (and I'm joking here but not altogether) I
>>> consider the very
>>>> act of getting behind the wheel tantamount to lowering one's IQ by
>>>> fifty percent. Put less acidly, I figure I have little-to-no
>>>> control over what cars do so I try to read their behavior as best I
>>>> can and feel that the position my cane is in (other than
>>>> aggressively sticking it out right as
>> I
>>>> start to cross) will have little influence on driver behavior.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Arielle Silverman via blindtlk
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:04 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Arielle Silverman
>>>> Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
>>>>
>>>> Christine does use a cane, the issue is being told to hold the
>>> cane up while
>>>> waiting to cross the street, as a signal, then putting it down and
>> crossing
>>>> with it. As to Mike's comment, How do sighted pedestrians signal
>>>> that
>> they
>>>> are crossing, without a cane or a turn signal? I assume they use
>>>> some
>> form
>>>> of body language. I consider extending my cane slightly in front
>>> of me to be
>>>> an appropriate form of body language. Like Christine I don't see
>>>> the additional value of raising my cane up off the ground. Further,
>>>> I
>>> agree with
>>>> what I think she was saying, which is that we want cars to drive
>> normally
>>>> rather than stopping in the intersection or doing other weird
>>> things because
>>>> we are blind. If they depart from normal car behavior, they give us
>>>> confusing information about whether or not it is safe to cross.
>>> Of course if
>>>> I am in the middle of crossing I want cars to stop. That goes for
>>>> any pedestrian, blind or sighted.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/27/15, River Linda via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying you can see well enough to cross the street without
>>>>> using a cane? Or, you just do not want to use it because you are
>>>>> embarrassed to use it and you do not want the attention from people?
>>>>> The cane is for your safety. As you have described holding your
>>>>> cane vertically off the ground in front of you, the cars coming
>>>>> from behind you will not see your cane. I was taught to keep the
>>>>> cane tip on the ground and hold it out diagonally from you so that
>>>>> cars coming from all
>>>> four directions can see it.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for people grabbing you, you have to tell them how you want to
>>>>> be treated. When people grab me, I tell them to wait and let me
>>>>> show you how to help me. When people make that comment about me
>>>>> being amazing because I can cut my food and eat it, I simply respond with "you, too".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, September 26, 2015, Szostak, Christine via blindtlk <
>>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> Ok, this might be a very odd question, but I was just thinking
>>>>>> about this and to me, it seems really illogical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I was getting O&M to help with transitioning to a cane,
>>>>>> every time we stopped at a curb to cross a street, the instructor
>>>>>> would have me hold the cane directly in front of me and hold it
>>>>>> up in the air vertically about
>>>>>> 2-3 or so inches off the ground. The explanation given to me for
>>>>>> this was so that others would see that I am blind and am using a cane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reasons that this seems a bit odd to me as a good practice are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) I do not want a car to stop at a stop sign and wait for me to
>>>>>> cross as I have always been taught not to trust in drivers that
>>>>>> say, go ahead I will wait because they may not see other cars
>>>>>> coming that could hit me if I follow their advice. Also, just
>>>>>> because they stop, it does not mean that they see you so the
>>>>>> signal you are assuming they are giving you, may not be the case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) I do not necessarily want to bring attention to my blindness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) I tend to look younger than I am and thus people, to my
>>>>>> consternation, always try to grab my arm... to help me. When I
>>>>>> was in training for one of my prior guides, my instructor always
>>>>>> joked that I was a really touchable person because total
>>>>>> strangers would try to drag me across the street since they just
>>>>>> assumed that I did not know how to cross a street with a
>>>>>> light:). This happens to me, regardless of whether it is with
>>>>>> traffic or even in places like restaurants, total strangers will
>>>>>> frequently grab my arm, put their arms around my shoulders... and
>>>>>> tell me how amazing I am to be eating so well:). Since I really
>>>>>> do not want this type of attention, I tend not to want to use
>>>>>> methods that are likely to induce it:). Since I could see holding
>>>>>> a cane in the air as one good way to get this type of attention, I am not overly eager to keep up this practice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus, do others here hold up their canes while standing on curbs
>>>>>> and if so, what has been your experience with respect to the
>>>>>> above issues? I really, personally do not like this practice as
>>>>>> it would seem to me that if you are a competent traveler who
>>>>>> follows the rules of the pedestrian and knows what you are doing,
>>>>>> then you should not need to do this as it simply tells someone,
>>>>>> this person is blind so stop and wait for them as they will not
>>>>>> be a safe traveler or is trying to signal that they need your help.
>>>>>> Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding the point of doing this
>>>>>> but I just really feel like this is an out-of-date practice, one
>>>>>> that tries to heavily point out blindness which would seem to
>>>>>> lead to increasing the stigma rather than showing that we are
>>>>>> competent individuals, and something that could actually be
>>>>>> dangerous rather than helpful to a cane traveler.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can understand this type of practice if you want for some
>>>>>> reason to indicate that you are blind or have a VI (i.e., when
>>>>>> you are concerned that you may trip... and do not want
>>>>>> individuals to just think that you are
>>>>>> clumsy...) so please know that I am not trying to discount these
>>>>>> types of situations rather it is just on the curb side if you are
>>>>>> just trying to cross the street and have any of the above three
>>>>>> reasons for not wanting to do so that I am asking about and
>>>>>> feeling
>> this
>>>> way about.
>>>>>> Happy weekend all!
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr. Christine M. Szostak
>>>>>> Assistant Professor of Psychology Department of Social Sciences
>>>>>> Shorter University Rome, Georgia szostak.1 at osu.edu
>>>>>> <javascript:;><mailto:szostak.1 at osu.edu>>>
>>> <javascript:;>> cszostak at shorter.edu <javascript:;>
>>>>>>
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