[Blindtlk] {Spam?} RE: [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
Gary Wunder
gwunder at earthlink.net
Fri Sep 2 20:36:23 UTC 2016
When did this case happen? Were we asked to become involved?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hyde, David W. \(ESC\) via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 13:16:08 +0000
Subject: [Blindtlk] {Spam?} RE: [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
I think what Brian is referring to in the 1/3 responsible for an
accident just for being there, is negligence. If a judge
determined that the blind person was at fault for being where the
accident happened, this is a misinterpretation of law. Such
would constitute use of contributory negligence, which is clearly
excluded under white cane laws. If, however, one does something
which contributes to the accident, that is considered
contributory negligence. Such is allowed.
Such occurrences might include crossing against a light, failure
to use due diligence in checking for traffic.
Finally, I know that the NFB did initiate the model white cane
law.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Jude DaShiell via blindtlk
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
Cc: Jude DaShiell
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
I wonder, is 1/3 of the blame put on each gunshot victim just for
being there too, or are the blind somehow special?
On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, Bryan Schulz via blindtlk wrote:
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 00:27:04
From: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Cc: Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
Hi,
The knowledge was nil 22 years ago.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Ericka via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:04 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Ericka
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
Did acb? I inquired about some things from them in the past.
Not once
in my forty some years did i get a return call!!! At least u get
answers most of the timefrom NFB.
Ericka Short
1750 Fordem Ave. #508
Madison. WI. 53704
608-665-3170
from my iPhone 6s
On Aug 31, 2016, at 10:01 PM, Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
Hi,
Tell me how great the nfb is when they can't stop the law from
saying
one third of the blame for an accident was the fault of the
blind
person just being there?
The nfb didn't go to court for that case!
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Carly Mihalakis via blindtlk
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:45 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Carly Mihalakis
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane
Every day is white cane day!At 05:29 PM 10/2/2015, Ericka via
blindtlk
wrote:
Hi Bob and all
I love your idea of getting the DMV, police etc. involved. I
just
spoke to the aging and disability resource center today to
inquire
whether they were doing anything community education about White
cane day coming up. When the lady at the desk gave me the Hem
and
haw over answering my question I figured the answer was no. She
did
give me the name of someone who does a lot of the community
events.
I love the notice for this Paula person and she did call me
right
back this afternoon. Unfortunately I was already at my next
stop,
the grocery store and missed the call. So we'll see how things
go on
Monday. We are having a fun and fit fair for people with
disabilities coming up. Maybe this can be incorporated somehow
although it's last minute. After all, walking in your community
is
not just independence and getting your mines done; it's also
keeping
yourself healthy and fit too. Many times doctors tell you to
walk to
lose weight etc. We can still hear the birds and the rustle of
trees
so there's benefit and it relates.
Ericka Short
"Friends are like flowers in the garden of life"
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Bob Hachey via blindtlk
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
Hi Mark,
I hear you loud and clear. Seems that driving in America is the
fourth inalienable right, up there with life, liberty and the
pursuit of
happiness.
While it is we the pedestrians who have been given this right by
law in theory, in practice, the rights seem to go to the driver,
no
matter how careless or thoughtless that driver may be.
Perhaps instead of raising a cane to call attention to ourselves
we ought to
raise Cain, (note spelling)
And, I'm not joking.
I love the idea of White cane day which is coming soon. But I
wish
we
could
be more successful at getting not just the usual folks from the
Commission
for the Blind involved, but the registry of motor vehicles,
local
police,
etc.
Bob Hachey
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Mark Tardif
via blindtlk
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:28 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Mark Tardif
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
There is something about some people who, when they get behind
the
wheel,
turn into creatures you and I wouldn't recognize. Joking, but
just
barely.
Mark Tardif
Nuclear arms will not hold you.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:52 PM
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
Cc: Mike Freeman
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
Arrielle:
I don't worry much about getting cars to conform to a certain
behavior pattern because (and I'm joking here but not
altogether) I
consider the very
act of getting behind the wheel tantamount to lowering one's IQ
by
fifty percent. Put less acidly, I figure I have little-to-no
control over what cars do so I try to read their behavior as
best I
can and feel that the position my cane is in (other than
aggressively sticking it out right as
I
start to cross) will have little influence on driver behavior.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
Arielle Silverman via blindtlk
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:04 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Arielle Silverman
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane
Christine does use a cane, the issue is being told to hold the
cane up while
waiting to cross the street, as a signal, then putting it down
and
crossing
with it. As to Mike's comment, How do sighted pedestrians
signal
that
they
are crossing, without a cane or a turn signal? I assume they use
some
form
of body language. I consider extending my cane slightly in
front
of me to be
an appropriate form of body language. Like Christine I don't
see
the additional value of raising my cane up off the ground.
Further,
I
agree with
what I think she was saying, which is that we want cars to drive
normally
rather than stopping in the intersection or doing other weird
things because
we are blind. If they depart from normal car behavior, they
give us
confusing information about whether or not it is safe to cross.
Of course if
I am in the middle of crossing I want cars to stop. That goes
for
any pedestrian, blind or sighted.
Arielle
On 9/27/15, River Linda via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
Hi,
Are you saying you can see well enough to cross the street
without
using a cane? Or, you just do not want to use it because you are
embarrassed to use it and you do not want the attention from
people?
The cane is for your safety. As you have described holding your
cane vertically off the ground in front of you, the cars coming
from behind you will not see your cane. I was taught to keep
the
cane tip on the ground and hold it out diagonally from you so
that
cars coming from all
four directions can see it.
As for people grabbing you, you have to tell them how you want
to
be treated. When people grab me, I tell them to wait and let me
show you how to help me. When people make that comment about me
being amazing because I can cut my food and eat it, I simply
respond with "you, too".
On Saturday, September 26, 2015, Szostak, Christine via blindtlk
<
blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
Hi All,
Ok, this might be a very odd question, but I was just thinking
about this and to me, it seems really illogical.
When I was getting O&M to help with transitioning to a cane,
every time we stopped at a curb to cross a street, the
instructor
would have me hold the cane directly in front of me and hold it
up in the air vertically about
2-3 or so inches off the ground. The explanation given to me
for
this was so that others would see that I am blind and am using a
cane.
The reasons that this seems a bit odd to me as a good practice
are:
1) I do not want a car to stop at a stop sign and wait for me
to
cross as I have always been taught not to trust in drivers that
say, go ahead I will wait because they may not see other cars
coming that could hit me if I follow their advice. Also, just
because they stop, it does not mean that they see you so the
signal you are assuming they are giving you, may not be the
case.
2) I do not necessarily want to bring attention to my
blindness.
3) I tend to look younger than I am and thus people, to my
consternation, always try to grab my arm... to help me. When
I
was in training for one of my prior guides, my instructor always
joked that I was a really touchable person because total
strangers would try to drag me across the street since they just
assumed that I did not know how to cross a street with a
light:). This happens to me, regardless of whether it is with
traffic or even in places like restaurants, total strangers will
frequently grab my arm, put their arms around my shoulders...
and
tell me how amazing I am to be eating so well:). Since I really
do not want this type of attention, I tend not to want to use
methods that are likely to induce it:). Since I could see
holding
a cane in the air as one good way to get this type of attention,
I am not overly eager to keep up this practice.
Thus, do others here hold up their canes while standing on curbs
and if so, what has been your experience with respect to the
above issues? I really, personally do not like this practice as
it would seem to me that if you are a competent traveler who
follows the rules of the pedestrian and knows what you are
doing,
then you should not need to do this as it simply tells someone,
this person is blind so stop and wait for them as they will not
be a safe traveler or is trying to signal that they need your
help.
Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding the point of doing this
but I just really feel like this is an out-of-date practice, one
that tries to heavily point out blindness which would seem to
lead to increasing the stigma rather than showing that we are
competent individuals, and something that could actually be
dangerous rather than helpful to a cane traveler.
I can understand this type of practice if you want for some
reason to indicate that you are blind or have a VI (i.e., when
you are concerned that you may trip... and do not want
individuals to just think that you are
clumsy...) so please know that I am not trying to discount these
types of situations rather it is just on the curb side if you
are
just trying to cross the street and have any of the above three
reasons for not wanting to do so that I am asking about and
feeling
this
way about.
Happy weekend all!
Chris
Dr. Christine M. Szostak
Assistant Professor of Psychology Department of Social Sciences
Shorter University Rome, Georgia szostak.1 at osu.edu
<javascript:;><mailto:szostak.1 at osu.edu
<javascript:;>> cszostak at shorter.edu <javascript:;
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