[Blindtlk] {Spam?} RE: [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

Bryan Schulz b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Fri Sep 2 21:41:11 UTC 2016


Hi,

It was back in 1994 in a shopping center parking lot about ten miles from
the Colorado center and the person ended up getting a local lawyer.
Bryan


-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Wunder
via blindtlk
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2016 3:36 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List
Cc: Gary Wunder
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] {Spam?} RE: [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

When did this case happen? Were we asked to become involved?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Hyde, David W.  \(ESC\) via blindtlk" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 13:16:08 +0000
Subject: [Blindtlk] {Spam?} RE:  [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

I think what Brian is referring to in the 1/3 responsible for an 
accident just for being there, is negligence.  If a judge 
determined that the blind person was at fault for being where the 
accident happened, this is a misinterpretation of law.  Such 
would constitute use of contributory negligence, which is clearly 
excluded under white cane laws.  If, however, one does something 
which contributes to the accident, that is considered 
contributory negligence.  Such is allowed.
Such occurrences might include crossing against a light, failure 
to use due diligence in checking for traffic.
Finally, I know that the NFB did initiate the model white cane 
law.

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
Jude DaShiell via blindtlk
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2016 8:08 AM
To: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
Cc: Jude DaShiell
Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

I wonder, is 1/3 of the blame put on each gunshot victim just for 
being there too, or are the blind somehow special?

On Wed, 31 Aug 2016, Bryan Schulz via blindtlk wrote:

 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 00:27:04
 From: Bryan Schulz via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List' <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Cc: Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

 Hi,

 The knowledge was nil 22 years ago.
 Bryan


 -----Original Message-----
 From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 Ericka via blindtlk
 Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 11:04 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Cc: Ericka
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

 Did acb?  I inquired about some things from them in the past.  
Not once
 in my forty some years did i get a return call!!! At least u get
 answers most of the timefrom NFB.

 Ericka Short
 1750 Fordem Ave.  #508
 Madison.  WI.  53704
 608-665-3170

 from my iPhone 6s

 On Aug 31, 2016, at 10:01 PM, Bryan Schulz via blindtlk
 <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 Hi,

 Tell me how great the nfb is when they can't stop the law from 
saying
 one third of the blame for an accident was the fault of the 
blind
 person just being there?
 The nfb didn't go to court for that case!
 Bryan


 -----Original Message-----
 From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 Carly Mihalakis via blindtlk
 Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 8:45 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List; Blind Talk Mailing List
 Cc: Carly Mihalakis
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] [BlindTalk] Raising a Cane

 Every day is white cane day!At 05:29 PM 10/2/2015, Ericka via
 blindtlk
 wrote:
 Hi Bob and all

 I love your idea of getting the DMV, police etc.  involved.  I 
just
 spoke to the aging and disability resource center today to 
inquire
 whether they were doing anything community education about White
 cane day coming up.  When the lady at the desk gave me the Hem 
and
 haw over answering my question I figured the answer was no.  She 
did
 give me the name of someone who does a lot of the community 
events.
 I love the notice for this Paula person and she did call me 
right
 back this afternoon.  Unfortunately I was already at my next 
stop,
 the grocery store and missed the call.  So we'll see how things 
go on
 Monday.  We are having a fun and fit fair for people with
 disabilities coming up.  Maybe this can be incorporated somehow
 although it's last minute.  After all, walking in your community 
is
 not just independence and getting your mines done; it's also 
keeping
 yourself healthy and fit too.  Many times doctors tell you to 
walk to
 lose weight etc.  We can still hear the birds and the rustle of 
trees
 so there's benefit and it relates.

 Ericka Short
 "Friends are like flowers in the garden of life"

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 28, 2015, at 12:25 PM, Bob Hachey via blindtlk
 <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 Hi Mark,
 I hear you loud and clear.  Seems that driving in America is the
 fourth inalienable right, up there with life, liberty and the
 pursuit of
 happiness.
 While it is we the pedestrians who have been given this right by
 law in theory, in practice, the rights seem to go to the driver, 
no
 matter how careless or thoughtless that driver may be.
 Perhaps instead of raising a cane to call attention to ourselves
 we ought to
 raise Cain, (note spelling)
 And, I'm not joking.
 I love the idea of White cane day which is coming soon.  But I 
wish
 we
 could
 be more successful at getting not just the usual folks from the
 Commission
 for the Blind involved, but the registry of motor vehicles, 
local
 police,
 etc.
 Bob Hachey

 -----Original Message-----
 From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 Mark Tardif
 via blindtlk
 Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 9:28 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Cc: Mark Tardif
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane

 There is something about some people who, when they get behind 
the
 wheel,
 turn into creatures you and I wouldn't recognize.  Joking, but 
just
 barely.



 Mark Tardif
 Nuclear arms will not hold you.
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Mike Freeman via blindtlk
 Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:52 PM
 To: 'Blind Talk Mailing List'
 Cc: Mike Freeman
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane

 Arrielle:

 I don't worry much about getting cars to conform to a certain
 behavior pattern because (and I'm joking here but not 
altogether) I
 consider the very
 act of getting behind the wheel tantamount to lowering one's IQ 
by
 fifty percent.  Put less acidly, I figure I have little-to-no
 control over what cars do so I try to read their behavior as 
best I
 can and feel that the position my cane is in (other than
 aggressively sticking it out right as
 I
 start to cross) will have little influence on driver behavior.

 Mike


 -----Original Message-----
 From: blindtlk [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
 Arielle Silverman via blindtlk
 Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2015 2:04 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List
 Cc: Arielle Silverman
 Subject: Re: [Blindtlk] Raising a Cane

 Christine does use a cane, the issue is being told to hold the
 cane up while
 waiting to cross the street, as a signal, then putting it down 
and
 crossing
 with it.  As to Mike's comment, How do sighted pedestrians 
signal
 that
 they
 are crossing, without a cane or a turn signal? I assume they use
 some
 form
 of body language.  I consider extending my cane slightly in 
front
 of me to be
 an appropriate form of body language.  Like Christine I don't 
see
 the additional value of raising my cane up off the ground.  
Further,
 I
 agree with
 what I think she was saying, which is that we want cars to drive
 normally
 rather than stopping in the intersection or doing other weird
 things because
 we are blind.  If they depart from normal car behavior, they 
give us
 confusing information about whether or not it is safe to cross.
 Of course if
 I am in the middle of crossing I want cars to stop.  That goes 
for
 any pedestrian, blind or sighted.
 Arielle

 On 9/27/15, River Linda via blindtlk <blindtlk at nfbnet.org> 
wrote:
 Hi,

 Are you saying you can see well enough to cross the street 
without
 using a cane? Or, you just do not want to use it because you are
 embarrassed to use it and you do not want the attention from 
people?
 The cane is for your safety.  As you have described holding your
 cane vertically off the ground in front of you, the cars coming
 from behind you will not see your cane.  I was taught to keep 
the
 cane tip on the ground and hold it out diagonally from you so 
that
 cars coming from all
 four directions can see it.

 As for people grabbing you, you have to tell them how you want 
to
 be treated.  When people grab me, I tell them to wait and let me
 show you how to help me.  When people make that comment about me
 being amazing because I can cut my food and eat it, I simply 
respond with "you, too".


 On Saturday, September 26, 2015, Szostak, Christine via blindtlk 
<
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

 Hi All,
 Ok, this might be a very odd question, but I was just thinking
 about this and to me, it  seems really illogical.

 When I was getting O&M to help with transitioning to a cane,
 every time we stopped at a curb to cross a street, the 
instructor
 would have me hold the cane directly in front of me and hold it
 up in the air vertically about
 2-3 or so inches off the ground.  The explanation given to me 
for
 this was so that others would see that I am blind and am using a 
cane.

 The reasons that this seems a bit odd to me as a good practice 
are:

 1)  I do not want a car to stop at a stop sign and wait for me 
to
 cross as I have always been taught not to trust in drivers that
 say, go ahead I will wait because they may not see other cars
 coming that could hit me if I follow their advice.  Also, just
 because they stop, it does not mean that they see you so the
 signal you are assuming they are giving you, may not be the 
case.

 2)  I do not necessarily want to bring attention to my 
blindness.

 3)  I tend to look younger than I am and thus people, to my
 consternation, always try  to grab my arm...  to help me.  When 
I
 was in training for one of my prior guides, my instructor always
 joked that I was a really touchable person because total
 strangers would try to drag me across the street since they just
 assumed that I did not know  how to cross a street with a
 light:).  This happens to me, regardless of whether it is with
 traffic or even in places like restaurants, total strangers will
 frequently grab my arm, put their arms around my shoulders...  
and
 tell me how amazing I am to be eating so well:).  Since I really
 do not want this type of attention, I tend not to want  to use
 methods that are likely to induce it:).  Since I could see 
holding
 a cane in the air as one good way to get this type of attention, 
I am not overly eager to keep up this practice.

 Thus, do others here hold up their canes while standing on curbs
 and if so, what has been your experience with respect to the
 above issues? I really, personally do not like this practice as
 it would seem to me that if you are a competent traveler who
 follows the rules of the pedestrian and knows what you are 
doing,
 then you should not need to do this as it simply tells someone,
 this person is blind so stop and wait for them as they will not
 be a safe traveler or is trying to signal that they need your 
help.
 Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding the point of doing this
 but I just really feel like this is an out-of-date practice, one
 that tries to heavily point out blindness which would seem to
 lead to increasing the stigma rather than showing that we are
 competent individuals, and something that could actually be
 dangerous rather than helpful to a cane traveler.


 I can understand this type of practice if you want for some
 reason to indicate that you are blind or have a VI (i.e., when
 you are concerned that you may trip...  and do not want
 individuals to just think that you are
 clumsy...) so please know that I am not trying to discount these
 types of situations rather it is just on the curb side if you 
are
 just trying to cross the street  and have any of the above three
 reasons for not wanting to do so that I am asking about and
 feeling
 this
 way about.
 Happy weekend all!
 Chris

 Dr.  Christine M.  Szostak
 Assistant Professor of Psychology Department of Social Sciences
 Shorter University Rome, Georgia szostak.1 at osu.edu
 <javascript:;><mailto:szostak.1 at osu.edu
 <javascript:;>> cszostak at shorter.edu <javascript:;

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