[blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
trishs
slosser at metrocast.net
Mon Nov 3 03:08:30 UTC 2008
HI.
Let's see if we can't find some common ground and put this to
rest, agree to disagree, or decide we shouldn't communicate with
each other at all anywhere, anytime? It truly has become
contentious, and that isn't what I'm trying to do.
I'm asking you to show me one inconsistency in my statements to
prove my hipocracy. I will own it, because I am open minded.
I get it that there are other ways of showing and teaching
respect outside my little world. I don't fault any one for their
differences. If I or my children were to visit them I'd like to
know their customs so that I can maintain decency and decent
children.
Taking your football and going home means that you don't want to
play this game any more, because, somehow it's unfair and you
can't win.
I've never been a teacher in a school system. No need for
apologies, it's a busy list and possibly not the only one you're
involved with.
This has been THE USA since its inception. There would be a
few million people through our history who would be offended at
being called "uninformed." You don't have to like the President,
and who says I even voted for him?
Parents are call to do a lot, I don't believe "all things" is
one of them.
As for teaching my children that our way is superior, of course I
do! However, I wouldn't inhibit them from learning and exploring
others.
I did say that I get complements on my children's behavior all
the time. Perhaps what I should have made much more clear is
that the complements are mostly conveyed when my children are
with friends and other family members who can look someone in the
eye. It has nothing to do with blindness.
One last thing. This all started, if I remember correctly,
because I insisted that children say "Please" and "Thank you." I
don't feel it's the school's job to do so, but I do feel that not
enough parents know enough to teach it, so our imperfect
government incorporates such manners in to their early
socialization programs, and I'm ok with that. My children will
not always be asked back to where ever they've been, but, I can
say, for the most part, they will. And I'm proud of that.
> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com
>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:24:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>Hi,
>I'm not afraid or angry with you, I just think your attitude is
generally
>hypocritical and presumptuous, and open-minded would not be a
word I'd use
>to describe you, or at least not from the posts I've seen. I
don't know you
>personally so I can't say for sure that you're like this in real
life, and
>I'd be the first one to apologize to you if I found you to be
pleasant and
>open minded if I met you in person. Take my football and go
home? That's
>um, strange! What does that mean exactly? While we're on the
subject of
>what does that mean, America is what some uninformed people
including your
>current president call your country, and btw is by the way, and
the two are
>not related. Sorry if I confused you by using the two together.
I'm sorry
>to if I got you mixed up with someone else on this list. I
thought you said
>you were or had been a teacher in some school system or other.
Apparently
>not! But saying your a teacher of your children but not a
teacher of
>geography is a bit of an oxymoron, don't you think? If you're a
parent
>you're a teacher of all things. I hope you aren't teaching your
kids that
>your culture is better then all other cultures, because that just
goes to
>proving my point that your attitude isn't nearly as open minded
as you claim
>it to be. I would never teach my kids that my culture is the
best culture,
>it's just my culture and there are lots of other cultures out
there to be
>learned about and explored. Lastly, you get complements on your
kids
>behaviour because you're blind, and for no other reason. I too
get
>complements on my kid's behaviour and they're usually from people
who are
>amazed that I can even get up in the morning never mind that I
have kids.
>Sighted people are funny like that. They don't like to tell us
when they
>see our kids doing something bad or wrong. Sometimes I pick them
up for it,
>and sometimes not depending on the circumstances. And I'm
willing to bet
>your kids aren't half as good as they seem to you. I know mine
aren't.
>Sometimes they try to get things over on me, and sometimes it
works, and
>sometimes it doesn't. Now I am going to go and eat something
because I'm
>starving. If you have anything else to add to this discussion,
please feel
>free to email me at
>tcl189 at rogers.com
>I will be happy to correspond with you privately. I'm sure
people don't
>want to read anymore on this subject considering the
disappointment some
>listers have been experiencing due to the lack of parenting posts
lately.
>Tammy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>I completely agree that respect is earned, however, you won't get
it if
>>you're not taught how to give it, and how to expect it for
yourself.
>> I don't know what America btw refers to, could you clarify,
please.
>> I've heard the name United States of America before, but I
really didn't
>> have great access to geographic models in school, so, you're
right, I
>> don't know much. I'm a teacher of my children, and not
geography, I leave
>> that to the school.
>> As to studying this culture exclusively, what I said was if I
was in
>> another country I would be expected to observe their ways.
Personally,
>> I'd learn language basics, and customs, I think it's
presumptuous and
>> inconsiderate, not to mention rude not to.
>> Can you show me a better culture? I'm very proud of mine, sorry
you're
>> not, that's your loss. I never said any culture was beneath
mine, but
>> I'll defend mine, flaws and all at the risk of being a
hyppocrate.
>> Aditudes like mine and yours are part of what makes this world
go round.
>> It's perfectly healthy to disagree, respectfully, if you please,
and thank
>> you.
>> I am American, and proud of it, and who I am, is a relatively
short
>> lifetime of experiences, seen, heard, and tried. Believe it or
not I am
>> open minded, that's how I learn.
>> You can take your football and go home if you want, I'll be
here,
>> defending my beliefs, and teaching others that it really isn't
so bad, in
>> comparison.
>> I receive complements on my children's behavior and that
reinforces the
>> good parenting job I'm doing. It ain't broken.
>> Regarding this thread, and your point that it has nothing to do
with
>> parenting, I strongly disagree. Our political beliefs are what
shape us
>> as parents, blind, sighted, fill in the blank. I say we change
the thread
>> subject to Political issues, that way we can discuss school and
culture,
>> which is in our faces, and making it increasingly difficult to
raise our
>> children accordingly. So go tell on me, Tammy, because you
can't have it
>> your way, but I say stay, and defend yourself. I can't hurt
you, what are
>> you afraid of? Why are you so angry with me?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>Date sent: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 15:35:29 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>Hi,
>>>I don't live in America, as you call it? It's not America btw,
>> it's The
>>>united States of America, it's part of North America. You said
>> you were a
>>>teacher, obviously not a teacher of geography. and why exactly
>> should
>>>people study your culture exclusively? It's obviously not the
>> best culture
>>>if I'm reading your message right and you think all other
>> cultures are
>>>beneath yours. I'm sorry list but I'm sick of attitudes like
>> this one!
>>>Thinking she's better then everybody else because she's a
>> teacher, or
>>>because she's quote American, or because she's fill in the blank.
>> In my
>>>world respect is earned, and you won't get it if you don't earn
>> it first.
>>>This is supposed to be a parenting list, but since Trishs has
>> joined I'm
>>>getting nothing but attitude and snotty little I'm better then
>> everybody
>>>else comments from her, and I'm really getting sick of it. I
>> should
>>>probably take it up with the moderators, but whenever I do that
>> they either
>>>tell me it's my fault or just ignore the problem completely. Do
>> you think
>>>please that we could stop this thread and get back to talking
>> about
>>>something useful? If it had been me who started this thread The
>> moderators
>>>would have shut me down after my first or second post on the
>> subject,
>>>whether I was disaggreeing, agreeing with somebody or just
>> stating a fact.
>>>But since it wasn't me they choose to let it go on for days and
>> days and do
>>>nothing even though it has nothing to do with blind parenting or
>> even
>>>parenting in general. You watch, I'll probably even get kicked
>> off the list
>>>for this post, even though I can think of much worse messages
>> that have been
>>>sent by other people and nothing has been done about them.
>>>I guess, we'll see!
>>>Tammy
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 1:09 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>I suppose that "respect" isn't quite universal. I feel that
>> others should
>>>>study our culture as aposed to your suggestion, this Is America!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Date sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 12:05:00 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>Well you know what I think of when I hear the word assume? You
>>>> may want to
>>>>>study the cultures in question before you make such assumptions,
>>>> because
>>>>>manners vary greatly from culture to culture. Some languages
>>>> don't even
>>>>>have a wordl for please or thank you. It doesn't mean they're
>>>> being rude,
>>>>>it's just not a word they need.
>>>>>Tammy
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "trishs" <slosser at metrocast.net
>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:28 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>> Violent scenarios aside, manners are manners. I assume we all
>>>> know what
>>>>>> to teach, and regardless of personality, affluence, culture,
>>>> traumatic
>>>>>> experiences, we need to be tought, and we need to learn how to
>>>> teach them
>>>>>> to our future leaders. It's our responsibility as parents to do
>>>> so, or
>>>>>> others will.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Date sent: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:34:56 -0400
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>That's all well and good but what's right to one parent may not
>>>>>> be right to
>>>>>>>another, and what gives us the right to judge either parent?
>>>>>>>tammy
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com
>>>>>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 11:07 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>>>> Okay, I'd like to sit those parents in a time-out until they can
>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>> right choices about raising polite children.
>>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M." <Rebecca.Pickrell at ngc.com
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:30 AM
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>>>>> I still say the use of violent metaphors is a problem given the
>>>>>> subject
>>>>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>>>>> We want to teach respect, but we use words that imply that it is
>>>>>> okay to
>>>>>>>>> hurt another human being.
>>>>>>>>> Any wonder why kids aren't "getting it?"
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Dena Wainwright
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>>>>> I have to agree. I see parents in public all the time that I
>>>>>> just want
>>>>>>>>> to smack, but unless their child is doing something that impacts
>>>>>> me, my
>>>>>>>>> baby, or my dog, I just bite my tongue. I will say something in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> above instances, though. Like when kids are barking at my dog,
>>>>>> chasing
>>>>>>>>> my dog, trying to hit my dog with toys, etc. I'll do the same
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>> anyone's kid is bugging Elise in similar ways.
>>>>>>>>> Dena
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Amber Boggs" <amberboggs at socal.rr.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 12:07 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>>>>>>I agree with you on one point. If a child is being disruptive at
>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> event
>>>>>>>>>>the parents should try and keep them quiet. On the other points
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>>>>>have to disagree with you on. If a parent allows there children
>>>>>> to run
>>>>>>>>>>threw a store witch by the way is a huge peeve of mine, then that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>rite and who is it for us to tell them to control there children.
>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>> gripe
>>>>>>>>>>as blind parents because people are always trying to tell us how
>>>>>> do do
>>>>>>>>>>things, thinking we cant parent, and so on, but then we will turn
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>>and boss parents around thus doing the same thing that we look
>>>>>> down on
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>it is done to us. How would you feel if you had your child on a
>>>>>> leash
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>order to give him freedom but also keeping him safe as a blind
>>>>>> parent
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>someone came up to you telling you to get your child off a leash
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>was not a dog? I realize that the situations are not exactly
>>>>>> alike,
>>>>>>>>> but in
>>>>>>>>>>principle one parent telling another how to raise there kids is
>>>>>> exactly
>>>>>>>>>>alike. I personally can not stand parents allowing kids to run
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> stores,
>>>>>>>>>>scream out of control in restaurants, but It is not my place to
>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>how to raise there kids. And besides do we think that by us
>>>>>> telling
>>>>>>>>> them to
>>>>>>>>>>make there kids stop running around that from now on they will be
>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>parents and follow our lead? I think not.
>>>>>>>>>> JOB Sorry if this sounds harsh, its not meant to be so, but its
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> peeve of
>>>>>>>>>> mine to have people tell me what to do. LOL
>>>>>>>>>> Amber
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: trishs
>>>>>>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] wow kindergarten has changed!
>>>>>>>>>> Last year at my girl's Christmas concert I sat across the table
>>>>>>>>>> from a young woman and man with a little boy two-years-old.
>>>>>>>>>> Micro man wasn't willing to sit quietly, super-parents weren't
>>>>>>>>>> willing to take him to the provided quiet room, and Trish
>>>>>> almost
>>>>>>>>>> got herself beat up because I couldn't keep my mouth shut. I
>>>>>>>>>> complained to them about their noise and I was told "maybe you
>>>>>>>>>> should mind your own business, this is a family concert." I
>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>>> I was aware of that, but I couldn't hear my family. "Your
>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>> man may be the center of your universe, but he is not the
>>>>>> center
>>>>>>>>>> of mine, and he's disruptive, and you're inconsiderate." They
>>>>>>>>>> went into the office and complained about me. Nothing
>>>>>> happened,
>>>>>>>>>> but my mom couldn't get me out of there fast enough.
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but, if you're in
>>>>>>>>>> public, the grocery store, restaurant, school event, every
>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>> you do there is public. If I find your children running around
>>>>>>>>>> in the store I'm going to say something to you.
>>>>>>>>>> It's not as though I'm barging into your living room telling
>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> how to raise your family.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> info for
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>>
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>>>>>> ggs%40s
>>>>>>>>> ocal.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> ose21%4
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
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>>>>>> pickre
>>>>>>>>> ll%40ngc.com
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