[blparent] Noisy shoes
Tammy, Paul and Colyn
tcl189 at rogers.com
Mon Nov 17 15:41:27 UTC 2008
Hi,
He is not totally blind, and he really doesn't need a cane right now. He
has something called optic nerve coloboma, which is an eye condition that is
pretty stable. The thing is that as he uses his sight more, and as he gets
taller he can't see the ground very well. So although he doesn't need the
cane right now he may in the future. I don't want him to be without skills
if the unthinkable ever happens and he loses the sight he has now. It's
unfortunately what happened to his father and he pretty much can't do
anything on his own because his mother never thought to make sure he would
be able to function on his own if he lost his sight which is of course what
happened. He lost his sight because his retnas detached due to him never
keeping his eye appointments. If he had gone every year like he was
supposed to he would still have sight now, and I don't want Colyn to be
without sight and without skills to cope with it.
Tammy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amber Boggs" <amberboggs at socal.rr.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>I am jumping in way late after a long computer crash. But I wanted to point
>out a few things. The blind childrens center here in LA is teaching kids as
>early as the child is walking to use a cane. They start with a thing that
>looks sort of like a walker but it is not quite a walker. I have personally
>seen little kids with the smallest cane ever. They have pamplits and they
>are there to help parents with little children. I can give anyone who wants
>it the number. Rick is on the board of derectors out there. I would have to
>agree, it is a very bad idea to have a child hold on to you cane rather
>then holding on by some other manner.
> I have a few questions, Are you getting them proper ONM and have they seen
> a licenced instructor who can help?
> And Tammy, I had no idea Collen was blind. How did I miss that? Hmmm
> I had a few other thaughts, and when I remember them I will post them.
> AMber
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>
>
>>I guess we'll never know the ratios at those places, but if you were one
>>person for, say 8 babies, I could see doing it--though it would break my
>>heart.
>>
>> When I worked at a day-care, another staff member and I had 17
>> one-year-olds all by ourselves. Ratio is one adult for four children.
>> It was a zoo. I can't imagine having those kinds of ratios every day
>> 24/7.
>> Barbara
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:28 PM
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I honestly am at a loss for what to say that might help you. It sounds
>>> like you're doing the best you can with what you have, and it's hard
>>> enough teaching things to willing learners. I don't know how anybody
>>> could just put two kids in a crib or swing and leave them there.
>>>
>>> Tammy
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 3:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>
>>>
>>>> To some extent you're right about being frustrated. However, with them
>>>> frustration kicks in the minute you introduce them to something new.
>>>> They don't want to try anything new. You see, for the first three
>>>> years of their life no one asked a thing of them. They probably spent
>>>> the whole time in a crib or a swing. I don't know what they do with
>>>> gobs of children in an orphanage. The time they spent in a foster home
>>>> I don't know what was expected of them either. I know when they went
>>>> back to the orphanage when we said we'd take them, the foster parents
>>>> were at their wits' end as to what to do with them.
>>>>
>>>> They fight us tooth and nail--literally--to stay in that happy place
>>>> they knew, one more so than the other.
>>>> Barbara
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 1:51 PM
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> No, I'm not saying that at all. But if it's frustrating them to the
>>>>> point they throw the cane then they're not learning anything from the
>>>>> experience. Maybe they're showing you in their own way that they're
>>>>> not ready for using a cane. If they're developmentally challenged, it
>>>>> would be sensible to keep showing them the cane, but not pressuring
>>>>> them to use it. Wait a bit until they ask about it or seem a little
>>>>> interested in it and then maybe things will go better. They're six
>>>>> years old and not interested in the cane at all right now. What's
>>>>> wrong with them holding on to someone's hand if they feel comfortable
>>>>> doing that. Why force a cane in to their hands when they don't know
>>>>> how to be safe with it right now? They'll just rebell against it
>>>>> later, and then you're back at square one again. My son loves using
>>>>> his cane, but he's 3 and he sees us using ours all the time so that
>>>>> helps. He's recently started using it at school to go from one room
>>>>> to the other, and I'm told he uses it well. But if he didn't want to
>>>>> use it, I wouldn't make him, and even in 3 years when he's six I
>>>>> wouldn't pressure him to use it. He'd get tired of falling down stairs
>>>>> and bumping in to things eventually. This isn't an issue of stopping
>>>>> showing them how to use the cane, it's an issue of effective and safe
>>>>> travel, and letting someone, anyone hold on to your cane for teaching
>>>>> purposes is unsafe and dangerous for all concerned imo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tammy
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Veronica Smith" <madison_tewe at spinn.net>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:10 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> So tammy, are you saying if someone can't understand something from
>>>>>> no fault of their own, we shouldn't try to teach them anything. this
>>>>>> is like keeping them locked up because they are not the same as you
>>>>>> or me. These kids are developmentally challenged and I believe they
>>>>>> should continue trying, not give up on them in any way, shape or
>>>>>> form. I beliee that each and everyday their mother should show them
>>>>>> the cane and practice with it. this is how some people learn. V
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com>
>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:19 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> No, you're right, not everyone's a pro at first tap, but when a
>>>>>>> person is
>>>>>>> trying to learn how to use a cane properly they at least have the
>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>> know what the purpose of the cane is so they can at least try to use
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> effectively. What's the point of trying to teach him something he
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>> seem to understand? It will just frustrate him and his mother, and
>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>> him to not want to use the cane at all, and that's far from what
>>>>>>> anybody
>>>>>>> involved wants.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tammy
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Veronica Smith" <madison_tewe at spinn.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 2:17 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We all have to start somewhere. Not everyone is a pro at first
>>>>>>>> tap.
>>>>>>>> Smile. When I went to the orientation center for the blind when I
>>>>>>>> was 29,
>>>>>>>> it was hard learning to trust it. I always felt better holding on
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> someone. All the instructors would show us how to hold it, where
>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> hands should be and then they would turn us out to the wild. Some
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> were so frightened they dropped out and left the center. Imagine
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> scarry it is for a child to all of a sudden not be able to hold on
>>>>>>>> to mom
>>>>>>>> anymore and not be able to see. If indeed, Barbara is just teaching
>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> letting him hold the cane it is okay, but just for walking and
>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>> around it is not a good idea for either of them. V
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:10 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> If he doesn't know or has no concept of how and why to use a cane
>>>>>>>>> then he
>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be using one. As for holding on to your cane, there
>>>>>>>>> has to be
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> better more safe way to travel with your children. Not only are
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> putting
>>>>>>>>> yourself in danger when you let your child hold on to your cane,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> children are also in danger if you don't use safe methods of
>>>>>>>>> traveling.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tammy
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:21 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And that is a problem we do have. He refuses to use it correctly
>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>> a good thing I know our block and other places where I have him
>>>>>>>>>> do that.
>>>>>>>>>> Once in a while I do run into things or trip, but he has to learn
>>>>>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>>>>>> Got any ideas how to get him to hold his own cane. We've tried
>>>>>>>>>> fastening
>>>>>>>>>> it in his hand but he hates that. The teaching cane is the best
>>>>>>>>>> method
>>>>>>>>>> I've found so far. I'm not bragging when I say I'm a very good
>>>>>>>>>> traveler
>>>>>>>>>> who is very aware of my surroundings because I'm not brave at all
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> comes to new situations.
>>>>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Dena Wainwright" <autumnrose21 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 8:12 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> having a child hold onto your cane doesn't seem especially
>>>>>>>>>>> effective or
>>>>>>>>>>> safe to me... how can you get accurate info with someone holding
>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>> also, what if he lets go?
>>>>>>>>>>> Dena
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Veronica Smith" <madison_tewe at spinn.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 11:30 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, instead of holding your cane, you should have your
>>>>>>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>>>>>> hold onto your pants or belt loop. V
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Barbara Hammel" <poetlori8 at msn.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:55 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The leashes we have are just harnesses with the leash
>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached. They
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fasten
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with velcro in the back. They're kind of tricky to figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to get the child's arms through in the right place. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> often but if I take the twins alone I take one on a leash and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> holds onto my cane. I've even tied the one's cane to his
>>>>>>>>>>>>> leash so we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to spend forever looking for it if he drops it or throws
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking for cane tips? That's a different story. So far I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> when the pop off.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Veronica Smith" <madison_tewe at spinn.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I only had the opportunity to use it once and it was a real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leash
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belonged to our husky. Gab thought it great fun to wear
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shelby's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leash as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we made our way through a very busy airport in Las Angelas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> care
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what others think as long as my child is safe. V
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M." <Rebecca.Pickrell at ngc.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 6:06 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've gotten comments on the leash I use for my daughter, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been positive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Really though, I don't much care, because as parents, it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our job
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep our kids safe, while still providing them and ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oppertunities to get out and about.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your husband doesn't have to like the leash, but he does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his child safe. Liking the leash is not a requirement for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *using* a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leash.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Behalf Of Melissa Ann Riccobono
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 7:30 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blparent] Noisy shoes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Shannon,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wasn't thrilled about the squeaking shoes either, so I put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bells
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> son's shoes. They are noisy, but at least it's a pleasant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> listen to. As for leashes, at least in the US, they sell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ones that are a small backpack that looks like an animal (we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> monkey) and the tail of the animal is the leash. Austin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loves
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (not all kids do, of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course) and has even named it. Maybe I get stares when I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public, but at least I know Austin is safe. And, I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> received a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ton
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> comments about how cute the leash is, and even what a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Melissa
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.1/1781 - Release
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11/11/2008
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8:59 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blparent_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickre
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ll%40ngc.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1783 - Release
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 11/12/2008
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10:01 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1783 - Release Date:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blparent_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1783 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>> 11/12/2008
>>>>>>>> 10:01 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> blparent mailing list
>>>>>>>> blparent at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1783 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 11/12/2008 10:01 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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