[blparent] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Blind Parents Meeting

Steve Jacobson steve.jacobson at visi.com
Wed Jun 3 20:07:27 UTC 2009 

My comments here are meant to address the general problem raised and not necessarily the specific one that started this thread.  While I understand the concern of 
throwing around a statistic like 50% of blind parents have such problems without some sort of proof, I would personally oppose 
spending money on us doing a study because I don't believe it would gain us anything.  We know there have been cases of a consistent nature over the years 
because we 
have helped pay for them and usually won them.  I frankly had never heard the claim of 50% of parents experience issues with child protection and I believe it is 
high, but any blind parent who thinks it can't happen to them has their head in the sand.  In dealing with any sort of a visit from a social service agency, we need to 
be very careful about the assumptions we make.  If we have ourselves all wound up and react accordingly, we are going to make our cases worse and appear to 
have something to be investigated.  One has to be careful not to appear paranoid.  On the other hand, assuming that the social service person is well-educated and 
therefore assumes that a blind person can parent is equally wrong.  It doesn't mean that their motives are bad, just that their background and education does little to 
change whatever preconceived notions they may have about blindness.  Those of us who have gone through adoption often find that we must take the social 
workers involved from a point of thinking that we are unrealistic to even apply, to a point of accepting that we can be good parents.  We also have to realize that 
some of us are 
not going to be good parents just as some sighted persons are not.  

We must also be careful to separate apples from oranges.  Some of us would feel that child 
protection's role is government interference inside the family and we'd feel that way if we were sighted.  Others of us are advocates of narrow family views 
endangering children.  If a blind parent refuses to have a child's medical condition treated on religious grounds, issues will be raised that have nothing to do with 
being a blind parent and our positions will depend very much upon or political and religious views.

It is important also to realize that what we're talking about here affects multiple areas.  Child protection is one obvious point of contact, but the lack of exposure to 
blind people as parents can play a role in adoption and in awarding custody in the case of a divorce.  A divorce involving a blind and a sighted spouse can be very 
tricky where custody is concerned if the sighted spouse decides to play all the angles to get full custody.

Our best approach is to learn from one another and be prepared as well as we can if problems should arise but be glad if they never do.  The percentage of times it 
happens, whether one spouse is sighted, if the situation has improved or become worse, none of this really matters.  It does still happen, and dealing with the issue 
carefully and fairly is something htat we have to be prepared to handle.

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:10:44 -0400, Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS) wrote:

>So why doesn't NFB do a study quantifying this and then use that for
>educational purposes on both sides of the fence, both to educate blind
>parents as well as social workers? 
> 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Tammy, Paul and Colyn
>Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:22 AM
>To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [blparent] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Blind Parents Meeting

>Hi,

>I don't have anything to hide either so usually if they don't come in to
>my life and my home like raging bulls and scare my kids half to death, I
>have no issues answering whatever questions they might ask.  But I don't
>understand and never have understood why the parenting standard for me
>and for lots of other blind couples seems to be higher then for my
>sighted neighbour who I know for a fact swears, spanks, and screams at
>her kids both publicly and privately and cps never gets a call.  That's
>what I'm talking about here, and as much as I would love to see proof of
>this data, I never will.  I am the proof, as is Joe Elizabeth, and many
>others on this list who've had visits from these so-called well-meaning
>people.  These organizations will never come out and say oh it's because
>you're blind, that would be discrimination.  But they'll justify their
>involvement by saying it's because of fill in the blank, and that will
>be okay with their managers, bosses, etc.  But we all know why cps, dcf,
>or whatever acronym the organization goes by in your state, province, or
>area use.  Most of these calls are made by hospitals, pools, neighbours
>and strangers who just happen to see something on the street not knowing
>the full story, and they're made because the parent just happens to have
>little to no eye-sight, or may do something a little differently, or
>their child might fall down etc.

>hth

>Tammy
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <kate02 at bellsouth.net>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:13 PM
>Subject: [Bulk] Re: [blparent] [Bulk] Re: Blind Parents Meeting


>>
>> I think we should keep in mind that being blind parents places us in
>the 
>> minority.  I have found over the years that it is popular for minority

>> populations to justify removal of children on solely the issue or
>choices 
>> that create their situation.  It just seams to be a common theme in 
>> Minority and fringe populations.  My kid was removed because fill in
>the 
>> blank and let the panic begin.
>>
>> Are there times that blind parents are questioned by CPS?, yes and I
>would 
>> imagine if you reacted badly things could go that way.
>>
>> But the constant being told that because your blind you may lose your
>kids 
>> does nothing but scare people and helps no one.  How can a new Mother,

>> father, or couple who is blind handle themselves if DCF is involved if

>> they have been siked up.
>>
>> Kids get hurt.  Kids put their clothes on backwards. Kids forget
>homework. 
>> That's just how it is.
>>
>> Its one thing to be informed of your rights but having yourself in
>this 
>> panic that its you against DCF is just going to the extreme.  I expect

>> questions and have no reason not to answer I have nothing to hide so
>why 
>> should I panic?  Fifty percent of blind parents being seen by DCF and 
>> being threatened with the removal of their children just sounds high.
>>
>> Personally I'd like to see proof not stats, any one can write stats.
>>
>> Kate
>>
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>> From: "Tammy, Paul and Colyn" <tcl189 at rogers.com>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> But the you might be next mind set is the one you need to take with
>>> organizations like cps, because you very well could be and for no
>other
>>> reason the fact that you're blind.  The fact is that every disabled 
>>> person
>>> should be aware that this could happen to them.  Cps could be called
>on 
>>> them
>>> by a neighbour well-meaning or not, a friend, or even a family
>member, 
>>> and
>>> they do have the power to make your life miserable for a very long
>time, 
>>> and
>>> even to tear your family apart without even a second thought after
>your 
>>> kids
>>> are in foster care and you're sitting in your empty home saying you 
>>> wished
>>> you'd listened to all the fear mongering and advice from lists like
>this
>>> one.
>>>
>>> Tammy
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:52 AM
>>> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>>
>>>
>>> > My daughter is learning to put her clothes on and has put them on 
>>> > inside
>>> > out, backwards, you n ame it. She's so proud of herself, I won't 
>>> > correct
>>> > her, that joy and confidence she displays is precious.
>>> > The times people have commented, I just explain that she did it 
>>> > herself,
>>> > and I say it proudly. It hasn't been an issue.
>>> > Also, if you are going to present raw data, how is it not fear 
>>> > mongering
>>> > when you offer no supporting data. It's like saying "100 people
>will be
>>> > killed in a car wreck today, you might be one of them" without
>saying
>>> > "to lessen the odds, wear a seatbelt and don't ride with someone
>who 
>>> > has
>>> > been drinking".
>>> > Knowing what actions and attitudes we can take is far more
>bennificial
>>> > then just tossing out numbers with the "and you might be next"
>mindset.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> > On Behalf Of Barbara Hammel
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:34 AM
>>> > To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> > Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >
>>> > It's not fear-mongering.  It's just pointing out a fact.  Sighted 
>>> > people
>>> > sometimes have such an overwhelming sense of fear of being blind
>that
>>> > they butt into people's business because they don't think they
>could
>>> > handle a child if they were blind.
>>> > Those people are there.  They always want to help you.  After
>putting
>>> > your child's shoes on the right feet for 9/10 of the school year
>and
>>> > then you put them on wrong by accident, instead of just changing
>them,
>>> > they have to point out to you that you made a mistake.  I know, we
>all
>>> > do that to some extent.
>>> > Barbara
>>> >
>>> > If wisdom's ways you wisely seek, five things observe with care:
>of
>>> > whom you speak, to whom you speak, and how and when and where.
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------------------------------
>>> > From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:46 AM
>>> > To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >
>>> >> I don't think any of us are excluded per sea, but putting out
>these
>>> >> stats with no other data is nothing more then fear mongering in my
>>> >> oppinion. What value is to be gained in that?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> >> On Behalf Of Kliph
>>> >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:27 PM
>>> >> To: 'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'
>>> >> Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >>
>>> >> That would be me also.  I am blind, but my wife can see.  So does
>that
>>> >
>>> >> exclude us?
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> >> On Behalf Of Scott Lawlor
>>> >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:43 PM
>>> >> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> >> Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd also be interested in this information and does any of the
>data
>>> >> apply to
>>> >>
>>> >> a situation where only one of the parents is blind?
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>>> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:03 PM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Interesting.
>>> >>> I'd be interested to k now more about this statistic.
>>> >>> One half of all blind parents.
>>> >>> Where is this number coming from?
>>> >>> What are the nature of these contacts? Do these cases involve the
>>> >> blind
>>> >>> parent who is at home with his/her kids or ones who work outside
>the
>>> >>> home?
>>> >>> What impact does a blind couple raising a child v. a
>sighted-blind
>>> >>> couple have on these contacts with social services?
>>> >>> What sparks these contacts?Does doing something "unconventional"
>such
>>> >> as
>>> >>> having a child born at home or choosing not to vaccinate play a
>>> >>> factor in if CPS comes calling?
>>> >>> Has anybody done a quantifiable breakdown of blind parents and
>their
>>> >>> contact with CPS?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I ask because I've heard this statistic before but would be
>>> >>> interested to know more about the data driving it.
>>> >>> Anybody?
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> >>> On Behalf Of Barbara Hammel
>>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:14 PM
>>> >>> To: NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm so glad that, according to our current schedule, I'll be able
>to
>>> >>> attend.
>>> >>> It's funny, in 2006 I attended the meeting and you talked about
>how
>>> >>> something like one half of all blind parents will have Child
>>> >> Protective
>>> >>> Services call on them.  In some respects, I was so glad--yet very
>>> >>> appalled--to hear that fact.  A friend of mine insisted I go to
>that
>>> >>> meeting, not knowing that was the subject.  I had just marked the
>>> >> first
>>> >>> anniversary of having the twins and had just had CPS at my door
>on
>>> >> that
>>> >>> last day of school.  Back then, Paul would never cry when he was
>hurt
>>> >
>>> >>> and he'd fallen on a toy and got a big bruise and I didn't know
>it.
>>> >>> I am the bather and changer in our house and at that time my
>>> >>> husband's
>>> >> job
>>> >>> took him away quite a bit.  Luckily he was home that day.
>>> >>> So anyone who's going, I hope to meet you this year.
>>> >>> Barbara
>>> >>>
>>> >>> If wisdom's ways you wisely seek, five things observe with care:
>of
>>> >>> whom you speak, to whom you speak, and how and when and where.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> From: "Veronica Smith" <madison_tewe at spinn.net>
>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:38 PM
>>> >>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Parents Mailing List'" <blparent at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> It is so funny, I was just remembering meeting you the year the
>>> >>>> convention was in Kentucky.  Was that 2002 or 2003?  Gab was
>very
>>> >>>> young and I left her with my hubby for the first time.  I felt
>lost
>>> >>>> without her.  Well anyway I went to your meeting and felt
>completely
>>> >
>>> >>>> like a dodo.  I asked questions such as how will she know what
>color
>>> >> a
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> crayon is or how will she color with me or how will I teach her
>the
>>> >>>> alphabet.  How will I read to her.  They all seemed trivial but
>you
>>> >>>> were so kind and made me feel right at home.
>>> >>>> Thanks for everything.  I wish I was going this year, maybe next
>>> >> time.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> V
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>>> From: blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> >> [mailto:blparent-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> On Behalf Of Deborah Kent Stein
>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 10:01 AM
>>> >>>> To: Multiple recipients of NFBnet blparent Mailing List
>>> >>>> Subject: [blparent] Blind Parents Meeting
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Hi, all,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> This year the Blind Parents Group will meet at convention on
>July 4
>>> >>>> from 7:30 to 10 P.M.  Traditionally this is an informal meeting
>>> >>>> where everyone is
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> free to share experiences and ideas.  I would love to hear your
>>> >>>> thoughts about possible topics for discussion, so please feel
>free
>>> >>>> to contact me
>>> >>>> on-
>>> >>>> or off-list.  I look forward to meeting many of you at this
>year's
>>> >>>> meeting!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Debbie Stein
>>> >>>> dkent5817 at worldnet.att.net
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
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