[blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying

Tue Mar 24 16:13:40 UTC 2015

Hi when our son was eight or nine, he went to some stores with a friend 
and his mother. When mark got home, the mother told me that mark had 
stolen an article from a store but wasn't sure which one it was. We took 
mark to the two stores that were posibilities and found out that one of 
the stores didn't even sell that particular item. The second store had 
the itembut was very busy that day and didn't remember him being there 
at all. Mark said that he left money for the item on the counter we also 
had very similiar items at home. I asked why he took the blame without a 
fight and he told us that he thought that we wouldn't believe him 
because she was an adult and he was just a kid.I also don't think that 
the smell your breath thing in reliable. we only used that to try and 
figure out if he had a sinus infection.
trusting your own judgment is more important than taking the word of 
other adults and as a blind parent we found that taking the word of 
others instead of trusting our own judgment was detremental and even 
dangerous to our son's health and well being.

On 3/23/2015 10:33 AM, Judy Jones via blparent wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My heart really goes out to you on this one.
>
> My first thought as I read through this is that, you're right, the 
> lying is a serious problem, and it can become an ingrained habit if 
> not stopped right away.  And she needs to understand that lying is a 
> serious offense for kids and adults alike.  The issue isn't the sweets 
> but the lying.
>
> A question also popped into my mind, what is causing her to think she 
> has to lie about the sweets.  Why would she think she has to, and deal 
> with that issue?  Did she disobey a rule by taking them to her room?
>
> Maybe, all she needs to do is to ask first, or let you know when she 
> is having sweets.  Would that solve the reason for lying? Again, it's 
> really not about the sweets, but whatever would force her to lie.
>
> Also, I would not go with the circumstance of smelling candy on the 
> breath. Although that could be true, many girl's chapsticks come in 
> several candy flavors as well.  So, although it could be true, it may 
> not necessarily be the case.
>
> Then as your story progressed, as she cried and insisted she was 
> telling the truth, my thought process. Changed.
>
> Now, this may be a situation where you will need to seriously sit down 
> with her and apologize, not because you are compromising your stand as 
> an authority figure, but if you did this, and worked things out with 
> her, this may be a moment she will remember for the rest of her life, 
> and may pass on this lesson to her kids. You will need to choose to 
> believe her this time, and explain to her why you thought she may not 
> have been telling the truth, so she can understand where you are 
> coming from.  You can explain to her that parents can make mistakes, 
> but the thing that will never never change is that you love her, and 
> want her to grow up into a beautiful young lady who understands right 
> from wrong.  This is a good time to help her to understand that she 
> can come to you with anything and be believed and safe. You can say 
> something like, "I choose to believe you now, and I'm sorry if I came 
> down on you, but you do understand about telling the truth always, no 
> matter how impossible it may seem sometimes, right?"
>
> Let her know that adults, too, can get caught up in lying if they are 
> not careful, and sometimes this is caused by a stressful moment, or 
> being afraid of reprocussions, but the truth is always the best course 
> regardless.  We told our daughters that even though they may get into 
> trouble, it is always best to tell the truth from the start, because 
> even if in trouble, will not be as hard on them.  And one of our 
> daughters recently quoted this back to me, so apparently it stuck.  
> They are both 28 and 25 now.
>
> My mother told a story which fits in with this.  She was accused of a 
> wrong-doing as a child that really looked like she had done it, when 
> she actually hadn't.  But when she tried to explain to her mom, Mom 
> was going by the circumstantial evidence and didn't believe her and 
> punished her.
>
> Now, she and her mom had a good relationship, and my mom was in fact 
> rightly punished for thing she did and shouldn't have done, but that 
> one story stuck with her the rest of her life, about the one time her 
> mom wouldn't believe her
>
> Do you have a story in your life where you may have been caught up in 
> a lie and learned from it?  Relate it if appropriate.  That will be an 
> excellent lesson for her how her dad was in trouble and either 
> overcame it with the truth, or what he should have done. You won't 
> lose your stance as her authority figure with isolated moments of 
> vulnerability.  It's a trust issue, and there are going to be moments 
> when you will need to trust her, as she trusts you.
>
> Also, tell her the thing about lying is, that, you tell one, then you 
> have to tell another to back up the one you told, then another to back 
> up the second, then another, and another, and inevitably don't 
> remember the first one you told in the chain, plus, this always 
> catches up to you in the end, whether it is an hour later, day later, 
> week, month, or years later with worse consequences. The best thing to 
> do is to come clean ASAP.
>
> Also, another thing to tell her is that one loses the trust of others, 
> because lying catches up with you, and then you gain the rep of not 
> being relied upon.
>
> One time, when our eldest was much younger, she wanted to be excused 
> from the table.  Her plate was clean, so we excused her. A few minutes 
> later, I found her dinner in the trash, as there was  a new garbage 
> bag in the trash can, with no other garbage.
>
> We sat her down and confronted her with the seriousness of lying. She 
> was actually full and couldn't finish her dinner.  We let her know 
> that that is understandable, and that an explanation would have been 
> okay.  That was the issue that forced her to lie, in her mind.  
> Another instance of enforcing that they can come to us, but always 
> tell the truth.
>
> Anyway, I hope this helps you.  Being a tween can be a hard thing, and 
> this isn't the first time she will be tempted to lie, we are all faced 
> with the temptation, but the answer is to help her recognize the road 
> signs of going down that path, of what could tempt her to lie in 
> future, and help her avoid the temptation to lie.
>
> Judy
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Nate Trela via blparent
> Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 10:49 PM
> To: blparent at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [blparent] Using your other senses to catch kids lying
>
> Short ime lurker, first-time poster ...
>
> I am a blind dad of two sighted kids (12 year old daughter, 8 year old
> son), blind for three years and divorced about a year with 50-50
> custody. My 12-year-old daughter lately has had a pattern of highly
> improbable, but slightly possible, explanations for things. Or to be
> more blunt, I am pretty sure she is lying about things she is doing
> but haven't felt 100% sure - or certain enough to metaphorically throw
> the book at her.
>
> The problems revolve around sweets - she is almost certainly sneaking
> treats, probably four suspicious events in the last six months. For
> example, I found an empty  box of Girl Scout cookies in her room when
> I brought something up there a few weeks ago; when I confronted her
> about it, she said a lot of the girls at the performing arts school
> she is going to had been eating such cookies and she thought the empty
> box must have fallen into her bag because of the way they store their
> bags outside of their dance studio. (I have seen the way it is set up
> and she has ended up with other kids' stuff in her bag before, but the
> box was slightly under her bed, like she shoved it under to hide it.)
> My instincts were going off, but it was plausible. I did not notice
> crumbs in her room or cookied breath. I was pretty suspicious but not
> sure I could "convict."
>
> Then tonight after my daughter came downstairs, my girlfriend let me
> know she smelled candy on her breath. I thought I might have noticed
> it too; it was the same kind of smell from a bag of Easter candy I had
> left on my desk. I came upstairs and thought the bag was not how I
> left it. I confronted my daughter, told her what I smelled and that
> the bag was not how I left it on my desk, told her I knew she was
> sneaking candy and that I didn't believe her when she insisted she did
> not take it.
>
> I have stressed that lying is never acceptable in my house. I usually
> know her tells - and including that point where I feel pretty
> confident she is not lying after heavy questioning. To date, that
> threshold has been when she cried, but she cried tonight, insisting
> she did not take the candy. I told her I did not believe her, that the
> cover up was far worse than the crime, and sent her to bed.
>
> So I am at a loss ... my girlfriend's instincts are impeccable and her
> senses (particularly of smell) are far stronger than mine. I think it
> is likely my daughter took the candy, but either she has gotten far
> better at lying to me or she is telling the truth.
>
> So what is the threshold you would use to "convict" your kid of lying.
> I tried to think how this would have played out when I could see.
> Because of the layout of our house, I would not have seen her go for
> the candy and probably would not have noticed it on her breath. But
> would I have accused her so forcefully - would I have felt as certain
> when I could see that she was lying if I didn't actually see what
> happen. I doubt I could have seen "candy residue" in her mouth or
> anything like that.
>
> On one hand, I know I have to trust my other senses more than I did
> when I was sighted. My son, when I first lost my vision, tried
> everything he could to test the boundaries and figure out what he
> could get away with. (Short answer - a lot more than now.) Because my
> girlfriend has been blind all her life and used alternative techniques
> forever, she has much more certainty about what she sees, hears,
> smells, etc.  I still second guess myself a lot and my daughter has a
> reservoir of trust built up over the years. I don't think she is
> trying to test what she can get away with a blind parent - it is just
> that she is a tween. There will be testing of boundaries. There will
> be lying, just like she probably does with her sighted mother.
>
> So any feedback would be appreciated as I try to figure out how to
> navigate this mess. Any suggestions for catching her red handed? How
> do you deal with suspected lying from your kids?  How would you prove
> this one to yourself?
>
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