[Cabs-talk] Capcha

Wed Nov 11 23:31:30 UTC 2009

            Hi Angela. My reaction to the captcha was not negative feedback 
to Justin shouldn't be construed that way.
I too tried the capcha and with speakers couldn't get it to work.
Tried it three times maybe with earphones.
As for posative solutions I totally agree with Justin about the use of the 
math problem that works any screen reader should be able to read it.
If we have to be so careful about offending someone that we can't ask a 
question like I did who will post to the list?
Fuzzy warmth is nice and I like it but this is an overreaction. Justin 
wasn't being criticized.
Even you have taken issue with capcha in the past.
I suggest if you want this kind of input blocked that the list be 
moderated.Don't worry about such further post from me, however.

I don't expect I will post further.
I'm not offended nor am I upset but we can't wear our feelings on our 
sleeves either.
If we can than I guess I'm doing that now right?
But no I am not.
I simply ask a question and addressed
 concerns about capchat. You say the capcha
 works fine so
 everyone who is hard of hearing can use it but
 I can't so obviously I'm wrong or
 something is wrong because as I said two
 challenges didn't work for me.
You talk about privately and gently correcting
 yet your publicly
Calling me out on this list!
 I am simply defending my action.

This to me is very scarry.
But if it's what the majority wants so be it
 my last post.
Mike
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
To: "'California Association of Blind Students Mailing List'" 
<cabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Cabs-talk] Capcha

> Dear CABS members,
> First of all I would like to compliment Justin on the excellent work
> he has done over the past couple of weeks on the CABS web site. He has 
> taken
> ownership of the project, putting his heart into it in a way which is a
> shining example for the rest of us to follow.
> The audio CAPTIA which Justin has found is very accessible to blind
> people, and to those of us who are hard of hearing. I had no trouble with
> it, and my hearing, or lack of it, makes most audio CAPTIAS almost
> impossible. This is quite literally the best CAPTIA I have come across.
> The fact that this CAPTIA is not accessible to deaf-blind folks is a
> concern to me as well as to Justin. I appreciate the concerns Michael has
> expressed on this list, and would like to invite him and others to join us
> in helping to find a solution to this problem. It is one thing to point 
> out
> a problem and encourage others to fix it, but joining in the effort and
> helping to find a positive solution is truly praise worthy.
> As your president, I'm concerned about CABS members giving each
> other what could be construed as negative feedback on a public forum. 
> Justin
> originally posted to this list asking for our help, and I would ask that 
> all
> future posts be directed in this vain. If we build each other in public,
> sharing the knowledge and wisdom we've all been blessed with, and gently
> correct in private when necessary, we will be a much friendlier CABS which
> people will truly enjoy volunteering their time to serve.
> With deepest sincerity
> Angela Fowler (president)
> California Association of Blind Students
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cabs-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:cabs-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
> On
> Behalf Of Justin Harford
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:05 PM
> To: California Association of Blind Students Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Cabs-talk] Capcha
>
> Good morning CABS
>
> In light of the issues concerns brought up regarding the captcha that we
> wanted to post I would like to say a few things with the purpose of
> explaining myself and walking away with my dignity intact..
>
> First to answer the question of whether captcha is really necessary, the
> consensus among web developers is that it is, and not to keep out blind
> people or blind/deaf people as is the feeling in some parts, but to keep 
> out
> spambots which may easily post messages to a form as well as any human if 
> no
> precautions are taken.  It was expressed that captcha is consisting of
> visual images that blind people cannot access, yet this is not the
> definition of captcha.  A captcha is
> merely a challenge that the user is put to in order to send a form.
> It is supposed to be a challenge that only a human could complete.  It 
> could
> be visual as most are, but it can be other things too.  I did a captcha on 
> a
> disability related sight that was a math problem.
>
> I had selected this captcha keeping our blind users in mind.  I myself use 
> a
> screen reader and could speak of ample experiences in which, if not for 
> the
> small bit of vision I possess, I would have been cut out from a number of
> things.  And no, the fact that I am a partial does not minimize the 
> outrage
> I feel when I see a captcha that is just an image.
>
> As a result of this awareness, I took pains to make sure that if A captcha
> were to be implemented that it would be not only accessible to a blind 
> user,
> but pleasant and easy to use.  The one I selected gives you clips from old
> movies and radio shows and has you copy the words you hear into a field.
> You don't have to get them all right.  It automatically routs your cursor 
> to
> the edit field so you don't have to fumble about trying to find the edit
> field as the captcha is being spoken.  In addition, the text that people
> input with this captcha goes towards an effort to digitalize old books and
> audio in a text format, another positive for the blind.  Thus I hope you
> would understand my excitement at finding such an option.
>
> However, while I do think that most of the arguments made against this
> captcha are unfounded, there is one important point still standing, the
> issue for deaf and blind users.  In the sight that hosted this captcha, 
> they
> mention this as well, and that alternatives like email authentication 
> should
> be offered.  .
>
> I still sort of think that we should have an accessible captcha as it sets
> an example for other developers to follow.  I can promise you right away
> that you will not convince many developers to compromise the security of
> their websites altogether by simply leaving captcha out, much better to 
> show
> them how blind people can manage such security implementations.  is there 
> no
> way we could set up an alternative for deaf blind?  Or even better, set up 
> a
> captcha that asks basic math problems like that one I tried a while back?
>
> Meanwhile, I have deleted the link to the form on our contacts page, thus
> making it impossible for anyone to access the form from our home page.  If
> anyone still cares to give input on the matter, the form can be still 
> found
> directly at:
>
> http://www.nfbcal.org/cabs/contact/contactform.php
>
> Eventually I will just delete it from the server.
>
> When I found that option, I was just so overly excited at how much better 
> it
> was from other accessible captchas I had done, that I just wanted to show 
> it
> off to people.  I apologize for whatever inconveniences it may have caused
> and hope that at least those who tried the form might see where I was
> initially coming from.
>
> Regards
> Justin Harford
> CABS Secretary
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Michael Peterson wrote:
>
>> Hi Justin I haven't looked yet and that might answer my question.
>> But is capcha absolutely necessary?
>> Generally I don't like it Lots of times the sound capcha's have
>> really garbled sound.
>> I'll maybe check and send a test message to see how I like this
>> capcha.
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cabs-talk mailing list
>> Cabs-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for Cabs-talk:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org/jharford%40calmai
> l.berkeley.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cabs-talk mailing list
> Cabs-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Cabs-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cabs-talk mailing list
> Cabs-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Cabs-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/cabs-talk_nfbnet.org/its.mike%40att.net 