[Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - what is the right way?-understanding others

Sat Apr 30 00:09:13 UTC 2011

Constantine, and the Council of Nicea invented the term, "trinity."
It isn't found in scripture.
Catholics use a total diferent book.
We use the King James Bible.
No wonder!
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Very interesting point Joshua.
> Will certainly study that.
> And, 325 AD is actually interesting,
> because it was after the First Vatican--in other words,
> after the Catholic church stablished the magestirium and declaired its
> official traditions.
>
> I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Holy Trinity,
> but I respect your point.
> Jorge
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>> Jorge, we are all creations of God, not children of God.
>> Jesus said, that when we're in sin, we are Satan's children.
>> When we come into Christ, we become God's children.
>> Those that do not come into Christ, are not God's children.
>> That's Bible.
>> How do we come into Christ?
>> First of all, who is Jesus.
>> Some teach that he's the second person in the Godhead, and some teach
>> that he's God, all by himself.
>> Well, you need to understand, that there are not 3 persons in the Godhead.
>> This will ruffle a few feathers on this list, but that's the truth.
>> John 4:24 says, that God is a spirit, (not a person.)
>> They that worship God must worship him, in spirit and in truth.
>> The Holy Spirit is a spirit, (not a person.)
>> Persons have flesh and blood, spirits don't.
>> The only one that became flesh was the son.
>> How?
>> 1 Timothy, 3:16 tells us that God was made manifest in the flesh.
>> God, (spirit,) manifested in the flesh, (son.)
>> The flesh revealed God's name, (Jesus.)
>> Colossians, 1:19 "and it pleased the Father, that in him should all
>> fullness dwell."
>> Colossians, 2:9. "And in him, (Jesus,) dwelleth all the fullness of
>> the Godhead bodily."
>> Jesus was the Father in creation, the Son in redemption, and now, he's
>> the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
>> Matthew 28:19 says for us to baptize in the name of the Father, and of
>> the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."
>> Notice the word is "name," (not "names.")
>> I've just established that the name of the Father, Son, and Holy
>> Ghost, was Jesus.
>> That's why we baptize in Jesus's name, (Acts, 2:38.)
>> Everyone was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus, the
>> Lord," never, "Father Son and Holy Ghost."
>> That didn't start, until 325 A.D.
>> Read Acts, 2:38, Acts, 8:16, Acts, 10, Acts, 19:1/6.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/29/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
>>> Jeanette and everyone,
>>> Let me share a couple of sections from the set of fundamental beliefs of
>>> the
>>> Seventh-day Adventist church, which I am going to be joinging soon. This
>>> clearly, using only the bible, explains what happens after we die, and
>>> how
>>> humanity is judged. I know it's a lot of scripture to look at, but if you
>>> all look, you'll see the truth of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> 26. Death and Resurrection:
>>> The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant
>>> eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious
>>> state
>>> for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected
>>> righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to
>>> meet
>>> their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous,
>>> will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16;
>>> Eccl.
>>> 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess.
>>> 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
>>>
>>> 27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
>>> The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in
>>> heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the
>>> wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without
>>> living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its
>>> close
>>> Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to
>>> earth.
>>> The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his
>>> angels
>>> will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse
>>> the
>>> earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev.
>>> 20;
>>> 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Jeanette
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:22 AM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>>> way?-understanding others
>>>
>>> everyone seems to want to talk about God's love but not about God's wrath
>>> against sin, it seems that it is all about us and not about a loving god
>>> who
>>> gives us a choice to choose His ways or not to, everything in life has
>>> consequences so what you are saying is there are no consequences to
>>> choosing
>>> a different way here on earth and if you don't like the after life you
>>> get
>>> you can change your mind, don't see that in the bible.
>>> as to whether folks are a child of God i kind of think it has to do with
>>> what your definition of child of God is, if you mean since God created us
>>> all then we are all his children, i suppose that is true.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?
>>> -understanding others
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua:
>>> are you suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are
>>> therefore not children of God?
>>> Is this not hypocritical?
>>> Does it not go against the image of the loving God Christians like to
>>> portray?
>>> For love is for all,
>>> love for some is not true love.
>>> Is that right?
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>>>> see in today's churches.
>>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>>>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>>> There's no way around it.
>>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>>>> Father, but by him.
>>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>>>> until Antioch.
>>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as the
>>>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles did.
>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>>
>>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and the
>>>>> fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the very
>>>>> week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one
>>>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and
>>>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God) In
>>>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>>>> and in different forms.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come." then says ".but surely
>>>>> Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they will."
>>>>>
>>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>>
>>>>> But. where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>>
>>>>> My answer is this,
>>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>>
>>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the
>>>>> later religious figures.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simple answer.
>>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to the
>>>>> writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the
>>>>> text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the people of
>>>>> Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set standards for
>>>>> them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of God.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>>> power hungry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, and
>>>>> at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus split
>>>>> into 2 groups.
>>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>>>> original Torah.
>>>>>
>>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>>
>>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>>
>>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>>
>>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>>
>>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path threw
>>>>> meditation.
>>>>>
>>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>>> language.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a
>>>>> way of life.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>>
>>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>>
>>>>> That means,
>>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>>> religion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language of
>>>>> a message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, as
>>>>> long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers,
>>>>> no matter what their name may be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jorge
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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