[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list

Joshua Lester jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Sat Apr 30 22:39:19 UTC 2011


Wow!
Amy and I have been using the same sources.
Ms. Linda has also shown us a good book, written by the son of a Hamas, leader.
They are saying the same thing.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/11, qubit <lauraeaves at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Amy -- I am verry sorry -- I was not speaking to you, but to Joshua, whose
> mail you were replying to with your short reply.
>
> I should have hunted around for Joshua's mail to reply directly, but the
> messages were arriving in my inbox out of order.
>
> Again, I did not mean to point the finger at you.
> I hope you'll forgive my slip-up.
> If it happens again I will certainly make it obvious in my mail whom I am
> responding to.
> Peace and blessings.
> --le
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Amy Ragain
>   To: qubit ; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>   Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 4:16 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>   here is a few resources from where I have gathered my info and beliefs!
> please check them out before dismissing them...
>   they are both by Pastor Myles Holmes
>   pastor of Collinsville Assimboly of God, Collinsville IL...I think their
> website is collinsvilleAG.org but am not sure...heres the links:
>
>
>   Jesus Was Just a Good Man
>
>
>   the truth bout Islam. "Islam, A Religion of Piece" http://bit.ly/dSlGvq
>
>
>
>
>   On Apr 30, 2011, at 1:36 PM, qubit wrote:
>
>
>     I am tired of the hostility toward a world religion by people who
> haven't
>     done their homework.
>     Islam may well be in error, but making claims that aren't substantiated
> only
>     makes you look wrong as well.
>     Of course, I don't know what your beliefs are either.
>     But I have looked up enough material to know that some of the statements
> you
>     make are wrong.
>     So perhaps you should update your references to get more accurate
>     information.
>     --le
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Amy Ragain" <belovedconsecrated2god at gmail.com>
>     To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>     <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>     Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:19 AM
>     Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>     amen!!
>
>     On Apr 29, 2011, at 9:31 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>
>       Jews and Muslems have been at war with each other, since the
> beginning.
>
>       The Jews' God was Yahweh, and the Muslems worship Ala.
>
>       Yahweh is the God of Isaac, (the Jews claim Isaac to be the father of
>
>       the Jewish race.)
>
>       Ishmael, (Isaac's half-brother,) is considered the father of the
>
>       Arabic race, (Muslems.)
>
>       They worship two separate gods.
>
>       Yahweh, (to us,) is Jesus, because Jesus calls himself Yahweh, in
>
>       John, 5, where he said, "Before Abraham was, I am."
>
>       Yahweh semply means, I am.
>
>       Ala is a named derived from the name of the moon god, worshiped by
>
>       people in Muhammad's day.
>
>       We, (Christians and Muslems,) do not both worship the same god.
>
>       Christianity came out of Judaism, but Islam is its own separate
> religion.
>
>       It's no secret, that Muslems hate Jews.
>
>       In Arab countries, they teach the children to chant, "Arabs are
>
>       beloved, Jews are dogs."
>
>       They've fought, and fought.
>
>       They will continue to fight, until Jesus comes again.
>
>       I'm on the side of Israel, and I always will be.
>
>       I know, that some Muslems are peaceful, but I'm refering to the
>
>       popular Islam, that's talked about on the news.
>
>       Blessings, Joshua
>
>
>
>       On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         Well I'm not muslim so I won't defend them,
>
>         but from what I understand he's the same name for our God.
>
>
>
>
>
>         On Apr 29, 2011, at 9:16 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>
>
>
>           the old testament tells us ther is only one true God, as i
> understand it
>
>           ala is not the one true god, he is a different god, sorry but that
> is
>
>           what
>
>           i understand.
>
>           ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>
>           <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>
>           To: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>; "Faith-talk,for the discussion
> of
>
>           faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
>           Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:31 PM
>
>           Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>
>
>
>           Very interesting.
>
>           Despite my firm belief in Jesus Christ, and the Catholic faith, I
> have
>
>           also talked to Muslim friends of mine and we agree on many things.
>
>
>
>           Interestingly enough, Islam itself is a word that means,
> submission to
>
>           Allah (God), so it makes sense that Jesus was considered a good
> Muslim
>
>           however, according to what I've read,
>
>           there is no mention of Jesus after his birth in the Quran.
>
>           Please let me know if you can tell me the versus in which his life
> and
>
>           passion are referenced.
>
>
>
>           I am a firm believer in Christianity but like to research other
>
>           religions
>
>           as I believe this simply makes my understanding overall of other
>
>           people's
>
>           religions and customs much better and thereby strengthens me as a
>
>           believer.
>
>
>
>           Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>           On Apr 28, 2011, at 11:32 PM, qubit wrote:
>
>
>
>             Greetings again --
>
>             This list has been active lately...
>
>
>
>             I am not muslim, as defined by any of the branches of Islam, but
> I have
>
>             a
>
>             brother who has read considerably the muslim writings including
> several
>
>             translations of the Quran, and I also have read a little in the
> Quran
>
>             out
>
>             of
>
>             curiosity.
>
>             I have read only through Surah 2, but it is true there are many
> good
>
>             and
>
>             peaceful teachings in this part of the Quran.    However, like
> the
>
>             Bible,
>
>             there are also harsh parts of the Quran that lead many to
> justify
>
>             violent
>
>             behavior such as is in the news.  This however, is also true of
> the
>
>             Bible
>
>             --
>
>             there are parts of the Bible that can be twisted to justify a
> lot of
>
>             unchristian behaviors.  (I'm not equating the Bible and the
> Quran --
>
>             they
>
>             are very different.)
>
>             Your statement that muslims don't believe Jesus is Christ
> actually is
>
>             false.
>
>             According to my brother, the Quran calls Jesus the Messiah, and
> in fact
>
>             includes an interesting telling of Mary and the virgin
> conception of
>
>             Jesus,
>
>             plus a discussion of his life and crucifixion.  I'm afraid i
> don't know
>
>             what
>
>             it says about the resurrection, but according to my brother, the
> Quran
>
>             refers to Jesus and his disciples as true muslims, because of
> their
>
>             willingness to submit to God (Allah).
>
>             My brother even compares the English translations to the
> original
>
>             Arabic,
>
>             and has discovers some interesting information -- such as the
> word
>
>             usually
>
>             translated as "Christians" in the English translations of the
> Quran, is
>
>             actually the name of a group of Arabs in Muhammad's time who had
> a
>
>             belief
>
>             about Christianity that Muhammad disagreed with.  It has nothing
> to do
>
>             with
>
>             modern Christians, or even the Christians that fought in the
> crusades,
>
>             which
>
>             was centuries after Muhammad's time.
>
>
>
>             Anyway, my brother also discovered inconsistencies in the
> various
>
>             English
>
>             translations of the Quran -- one English version clashed in
> meaning
>
>             with
>
>             the
>
>             others.
>
>             He also claims that if you look at the original Arabic, the
> verses in
>
>             question agree with verses of the New Testament that discuss the
>
>             mission
>
>             of
>
>             Jesus and related things.  However, what he has found is that
> Christian
>
>             and
>
>             Muslim scholars believe the Bible and Quran clash, and when he
> tries to
>
>             point out the verses in question, he is met with mixed
> reactions. The
>
>             Christians he talks to find his discovery interesting, while the
>
>             muslims
>
>             almost always get hot under the collar. He has even been
> escorted out
>
>             of
>
>             places and asked not to come back...
>
>
>
>             One verse in the Quran I found a little incredulous was Sura
> 2:256
>
>             "There is no compulsion in religion..."
>
>             I guess it surprised me.
>
>
>
>             Sorry for the rambling.
>
>             Funny thing: even with all the negative reaction my brother gets
> from
>
>             most
>
>             muslims who listen to him, he was told by one man that he
> thought my
>
>             brother
>
>             was a true muslim.  My brother took it as a compliment.
>
>
>
>             I do want to say one thing more:
>
>             i agree that there is some truth in all world religions, but
> that
>
>             doesn't
>
>             mean all of their writings are correct or agree.
>
>             I don't think you can put 2 religions -- like Christianity and
> Buddhism
>
>             --
>
>             side by side and find they are really the same.
>
>             An example -- I once read the book "The Power of Myth", which
> tried to
>
>             tie
>
>             all the world's myths and religious beliefs together by looking
> for
>
>             similarities.  I also saw the author interviewed on PBS.  It
> sounded
>
>             interested, until I got to the part where Buddhism and
> Christianity
>
>             were
>
>             discussed.  The author actually tried to equate the missions of
> Buddha
>
>             and
>
>             Jesus.
>
>             I knew a lot about Christianity, and not so much about Buddhism,
> but
>
>             the
>
>             discussion didn't feel right. I read a little more about Buddha
> and my
>
>             conclusion were that while Jesus and Buddha were compassionate
>
>             spiritual
>
>             leaders, their missions were quite different.  I also didn't
> feel like
>
>             it
>
>             was appropriate to call Jesus a myth.    The author also
> misrepresented
>
>             or
>
>             took liberties with the story told in scripture, which I felt he
>
>             couldn't
>
>             do. I also felt that if he couldn't get Christianity right,
> which I did
>
>             have
>
>             a knowledge about, how could I trust what he had to say about
> the other
>
>             religions?  I would rather research themby talking to persons
> who live
>
>             them.
>
>
>
>             Anyway, have a nice evening.
>
>             --le
>
>
>
>
>
>             ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>
>             <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>
>             To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>
>             <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
>             Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 8:25 PM
>
>             Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>
>
>
>             Alan:
>
>             With all due respect,
>
>             you have to be aware the bible uses complex langauge structures.
>
>             For example: have you ever tried reading Revelations?
>
>             You should, but it is a very complicated book to understand.
>
>
>
>             What he means by the Father threw me is simple:
>
>             if you know him, you know the father.
>
>
>
>             But… and this is an important point,
>
>             it is a greater crime to not believe in God, then it is to not
>
>             recognize
>
>             Jesus.
>
>
>
>             After all, muslims don't recognize Jesus as the Christ and yet
> their
>
>             codes
>
>             of ethics stand amongst one of the strictest, and strongest I've
> seen.
>
>
>
>             There are many muslims I know who would put so-called Christians
> to
>
>             shae
>
>             with their devotion to God.
>
>
>
>             Are you saying they are bound to hell?
>
>
>
>             Not attacking you, just wondering.
>
>
>
>             Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
>             On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:04 PM, Alan Wheeler wrote:
>
>
>
>               No, it is Christ, Himself, who said He is the only way:
>
>               John 14
>
>
>
>               2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I
> would have
>
>               told
>
>               you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.
>
>               3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back
> and take
>
>               you
>
>               to
>
>               be with me that you also may be where I am.
>
>               4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
>
>               5 ¶Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don't know where you are
> going, so
>
>               how
>
>               can
>
>               we know the way?”
>
>               6 ¶Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life.
> No one
>
>               comes
>
>               to
>
>               the Father except through me.
>
>               7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well.
> From now
>
>               on,
>
>               you
>
>               do know him and have seen him.”
>
>
>
>
>
>               Take note, Jesus didn't say "I am *A* way, *A* truth, and *A*
> life,"
>
>               but
>
>               rather said "I am *THE* way, *THE* truth, and *THE* life." Use
> of the
>
>               word
>
>               "the" in that context denotes singleness or exclusivity. So,
> Jesus
>
>               was,
>
>               in
>
>               essence saying he was the only way, the only truth, and the
> only life.
>
>
>
>
>
>               -----Original Message-----
>
>               From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>
>               [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>
>               On Behalf Of Jorge Paez
>
>               Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:11 PM
>
>               To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>
>               Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>
>               Christ is who we Christians say is the only way.
>
>
>
>               I think its a bigger crime not to believe in God, E.G.,
> atheists, then
>
>               not
>
>               to believe in Christ.
>
>
>
>
>
>               On Apr 28, 2011, at 6:57 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>
>
>
>                 the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they
> looked
>
>                 forward
>
>                 to
>
>               Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to
> reveal
>
>               himself to.  but according to the bible Jesus is the only way,
> this is
>
>               my
>
>               personal belief i think by telling people if they are good
> they will
>
>               go
>
>               to
>
>               heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice
> Christ made
>
>               on
>
>               the
>
>               cross. if being good is all it takes  then you are saying
> there is no
>
>               need
>
>               for hell either.
>
>                 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>
>                 <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>
>                 To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>
>                 <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
>                 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>
>                 Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I say Gandi is in heaven.
>
>                   Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows
> God's
>
>                   commandments
>
>               though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>
>
>
>                   Because, if you think of it,
>
>                   would all those who believed in God before Christ go to
> hell because
>
>                   they
>
>               did not know him?
>
>
>
>                   It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we
> must, but
>
>                   for
>
>               those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's
> commandments.
>
>
>
>                   It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't
> know
>
>                   Christ,
>
>               then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>
>
>
>                   This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is
> said on
>
>                   the
>
>               outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>
>
>
>                   Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial
> of God?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                   On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
>
>
>                     I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to
> reconcile that
>
>                     belief with the fact that most people throughout history
> either
>
>                     never heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was.
> Will
>
>                     someone
>
>                     like Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in
> this life, go
>
>                     to hell simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior
> while he
>
>                     was
>
>               here?
>
>
>
>                     On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>                       any  literature other than the bible is not God
> inspired there
>
>                       fore is not reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing
> anyone,
>
>                       just
>
>                       what i believe, if you do not need Jesus to go to
> Heaven  then how
>
>                       to you explain the need for Him to sacrafice  His life
> for our
>
>                       sins?
>
>                       ----- Original Message -----
>
>                       From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>
>                       To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and
> religion"
>
>                       <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>
>                       Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>
>                       Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>
>
>
>
>                         Kirt:
>
>                         I agree with your view,
>
>                         my difference being that although all are children
> of God, only
>
>                         those who do good shall be saved, weather they have
> a religion or
>
>                         not.
>
>
>
>                         And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that
> this theory
>
>                         has
>
>                         been written by Pope Benedict the 16th, though I
> can't remember
>
>                         his name prior to this.
>
>
>
>                         This was also included in the Second Vatican of the
> Catholic
>
>                         church, and if anyone's interested in research on
> this topic by
>
>                         the way, I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly
> reliable
>
>                         source.
>
>
>
>                         Jorge
>
>                         On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
>
>
>                           Jorge,
>
>                           My church teaches that all humans are children of
> God.
>
>                           Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus,
> Bahais, Wiccans,
>
>                           Atheists, Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone
> is literally a
>
>                           spirit child of god.
>
>                           Also, you might be interested in the idea of
> "anonimous
>
>                           christianity."  I'm not going to do it justice,
> but it was an
>
>                           idea advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I
> can't recall
>
>                           the name) that basically all people living
> christlike lives have
>
>                           access to Christ's grace, though they don't know
> it yet.  As a
>
>                           Mormon, a central part of my faith is that, some
> day, either in
>
>                           this life or the next, all people will have the
> chance to hear
>
>                           the gospel of Christ.  Were this not true, God
> would not be a
>
>                           fair and just God because, throughout the ages,
> there have been
>
>                           billions of people who literally never even heard
> of Jesus
>
>                           Christ.  I can't believe in a God who would damn
> someone merely
>
>                           because they were never exposed to Christ in
> mortal life, or
>
>                           because they chose to live by their original faith
> instead,
>
>                           without really understanding what Christ offers.
> So, I believe
>
>                           that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics
> and Muslims
>
>                           and
>
>                           HIndus and all manner of religions...at least,
> full of people
>
>                           who
>
>                           believed all manner of religions while living here
> on earth,
>
>                           they
>
>                           will all have accepted Christ as savior and lived
> his
>
>                           commandments to the best of their abilities before
> being saved,
>
>                           though.  I'm just rambling...but basically I
> believe that, just
>
>                           because someone dies without faith in Christ, I
> don't believe
>
>                           they
>
>               are ultimately condemned to hell unless they reject Christ
> later.
>
>                           Just my thoughts.  I'd welcome discussion or
> civilized debate.
>
>                           Best,
>
>                           Kirt
>
>
>
>                           On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez
> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>                             Hello Kirt:
>
>                             I agree with you completely.
>
>
>
>                             In fact, if you look at the ancient documents
> and text, you
>
>                             will
>
>                             see that Christians started out as one group.
>
>                             Then for various reasons,
>
>                             divided,
>
>                             so in a way, we are both following the original
> tradition.
>
>                             But,
>
>                             that brings me to my point.
>
>                             What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable
> behavior for
>
>                             "children of God?"
>
>
>
>                             I understand that our Christianity stems from
> our belief in
>
>                             Jesus Christ.
>
>
>
>                             But then  how do we define "children of God?"
>
>                             Would we consider Muslims as "children of God",
> despite their
>
>                             views on Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>
>
>
>                             Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we
> define
>
>                             "Christian?"
>
>
>
>                             Just food for thought.
>
>
>
>
>
>                             Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                             On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring
> wrote:
>
>
>
>                               Dear list,
>
>                               I feel like I need to respond to this thread.
> Please
>
>                               understand I'm not trying to spark
> controversy, I don't intend
>
>                               to debate anyone here, and I'm not trying to
> impose my own
>
>                               faith on anyone.  But, with that disclaimer
> out of the way, I
>
>                               want to answer one point that was made earlier
> on this thread.
>
>                               John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon)
> friends do not
>
>                               identify themselves as Christian.  I think I
> understand why,
>
>                               although I whole-heartedly proclaim myself a
> Christian.  It
>
>                               ultimately boils down to your definition of a
> Christian.  If
>
>                               the only Christians are those who worship the
> Trinity as God,
>
>                               and confess the Nycene creed, then I suppose
> we Mormons aren't
>
>                               Christians.  But, by that definition, you're
> excluding some of
>
>                               the most Christian people among us.  Consider
> Joshua Lester, a
>
>               oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the Trinity.
>
>                               Would anyone here, on this list, seriously
> claim he isn't a
>
>               Christian?
>
>                               His understanding of God as one person is as
> different from
>
>                               the
>
>                               traditional Trinity as my understanding of God
> as three
>
>                               separate, distinctive personages who are one
> in purpose rather
>
>                               than
>
>               substance.
>
>                               Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and
> criticized in
>
>                               the
>
>                               world for being "unChristian", just as mine
> has been.
>
>                               So this brings me to my next point.  If
> Christians aren't
>
>                               exclusively Trinitarians, what defines a
> Christian?  To me,
>
>                               it's obvious. Anyone who accepts Christ as
> lord and savior and
>
>                               relies exclusively upon him as the only means
> of salvation is
>
>                               a
>
>                               Christian.  For us as Mormons Jesus is not
> just a good moral
>
>                               guide for an excelent life.  He isn't just an
> inspired teacher
>
>                               or prophet- he is a member of the godhead, our
> redemer and,
>
>               ultimately, the only true savior for humankind.
>
>                               Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need
> his atoning
>
>                               sacrifice in our lives both to purify us now
> and cleanse us
>
>                               for
>
>                               eternity.  In my book, if you agree with that,
> you're a
>
>                               Christian.  So despite the numerous and
> significant
>
>                               theological
>
>                               differences between Catholics and Protestants
> and Mormons and
>
>                               Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox Christians,
> we all have that
>
>               common ground.  Are Mormons Christian?
>
>                               Are Oneness pentecostals Christian?  I answer,
> emphatically,
>
>                               "yes!"
>
>                               Warmest regards,
>
>                               Kirt
>
>
>
>                               On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer
> <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>
>                                 Kirt,
>
>
>
>                                 This happens sometimes, and I've known
> people to be really
>
>                                 embarrassed at some of the things they said.
> However, in this
>
>                                 case there is no need for embarrassment. i
> felt that the
>
>                                 information I gave in my reply would be good
> for the whole
>
>                                 list.
>
>
>
>                                 Blessed Easter,
>
>                                 John
>
>
>
>                                 On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600,
> Kirt Manwaring
>
>                                 wrote:
>
>                                 o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it
> would go just to
>
>                                 John,
>
>                                 o> but it
>
>                                 went to the whole list.  My sincere
> appologies.
>
>
>
>                                 On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez
> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>
>                                 wrote:
>
>                                 Kirt:
>
>                                 I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>
>                                 I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the
> time to study
>
>                                 the
>
>                                 2 other major religions of the world
> (Judaism and Islam),
>
>                                 and we're currently studying the reformation
> in school.
>
>
>
>                                 According to my understanding, the
> majesterium mandated at
>
>                                 that time that all bibles bee in Latin,
> therefore making it
>
>                                 impossible for the "common people" to read,
> while the
>
>                                 protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong)
> were the first
>
>                                 to start reading the bible in common
> languages, believing
>
>                                 that the bible should be read and understood
> by each and
>
>                                 every believer.
>
>
>
>                                 Am I correct?
>
>
>
>                                 Jorge
>
>
>
>
>
>                                 On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring
> wrote:
>
>
>
>                                 John,
>
>                                 I never replied to your message earlier.
> Thanks for your
>
>                                 answers about the Majesterium and Tradition.
>  So, if I'm
>
>                                 understanding right, it is your belief that
> the
>
>                                 majesterium/teaching arm of the Roman
> Catholic church is
>
>                                 simply clarifying the revelation already
> given.
>
>                                 In
>
>                                 other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the
> complete
>
>                                 Revelation of God.  If I'm understanding
> right, the
>
>                                 biggest
>
>                                 disagreement between Catholics and
> Protestants is a matter
>
>                                 of interpretation of the Bible.
>
>                                 For you, am I right in saying the
> interpretation provided
>
>                                 by tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and
> the only
>
>                                 "correct" way to look at scripture, while in
> Protestant
>
>                                 Christianity it is more open
>
>
>
>                                 to
>
>                                 the reader's own interpretation?  I know
> that's a huge
>
>                                 generalization, but would you say I'm right
> there?
>
>                                 Anyways...I'm also curious about another
> statement you
>
>                                 made. You said something to the effect of
> believing Joseph
>
>                                 Smith's vissions were genuine, but not
> valid.  So...for
>
>                                 you, as a Catholic, do you think he was
> misguided?
>
>                                 Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken
> in taking it
>
>                                 too
>
>                                 far?  Inspired by the devil?  I won't get
> offended, I want
>
>                                 your honest opinion and I'm not going to
> take it
>
>                                 personally.
>
>                                 And, religious dialogue is definitely
> important...I'd say
>
>                                 escential.
>
>                                 I think there's much to learn from all
> religions, and
>
>                                 personally I'm convinced God has inspired
> them all.  That
>
>                                 doesn't mean I believe with everything every
> faith claims,
>
>                                 but I see the hand of God throughout the
> religious world.
>
>                                 I have one other question for you.  Are you
> familiar with
>
>                                 the idea of anonimous Christianity?  If so,
> what are your
>
>               thoughts on it?
>
>                                 God bless,
>
>                                 Kirt
>
>
>
>                                 On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer
> <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>
>                                 I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for
> interrelitious
>
>               dialog.
>
>                                 In
>
>                                 fact, I think that is part of my particular
> work of
>
>                                 evangelization.
>
>                                 If
>
>                                 you go to my website,
> http://www.godtouches.org you will
>
>                                 see that it's motto is "peace, love,
> service". I think
>
>                                 that my work of evangelization is to spread
> these
>
>                                 attitudes of Christ even in the secular
> world.
>
>
>
>                                 John
>
>
>
>                                 On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600,
> Kirt Manwaring
>
>               wrote:
>
>                                 Dear list,
>
>                                 I very much enjoy all the devotionals and
> prayer
>
>                                 requests
>
>                                 and discussions on here.  I'm pretty sure
> it's one of
>
>                                 the
>
>                                 few worthwhile distractions in life.  But I
> am curious,
>
>                                 and I definitely don't mean to offend, if
> there are any
>
>                                 non-christian regular readers of this
> mailinglist?  I
>
>                                 don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want
> this thread to
>
>                                 turn into an overblown theological debate,
> but I'm very
>
>                                 interested in talking with and learning from
> people from
>
>                                 other faiths. If that's you, and you
> wouldn't mind
>
>                                 talking, would you please email me off-list?
>  I won't
>
>                                 procelyte- I won't try to baptize you or
> anything.
>
>                                 I just want a friendly dialogue.
>
>                                 God bless,
>
>                                 Kirt
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
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>
>                                 --
>
>                                 John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches
> Digital
>
>                                 Ministry, Inc.
>
>                                 http://www.godtouches.org
>
>                                 Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>
>                                 Peace, Love, Service
>
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>                                 ohn%40godtouches.org
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>
>                                 --
>
>                                 John J. Boyer, Executive Director GodTouches
> Digital
>
>                                 Ministry,
>
>                                 Inc.
>
>                                 http://www.godtouches.org
>
>                                 Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>
>                                 Peace, Love, Service
>
>
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