[Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Fri Jun 3 19:15:11 UTC 2011

I think this is an interesting debate and it is interesting the different
positions that people take on this issue.

Normally, I do not get caught up in debate over Christian theology but I did
want to provide some information on this discussion.

I believe that in order to understand submission and subordination (we
submit to one another, we submit to the church, the church submits to God)
then we should try to understand the principle of the trinity.

I believe firmly that there is one God represented in three.

I listened to the video on YouTube but I cannot buy into that teaching.

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let
them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and
over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
creeps on the earth."

a. Let Us make man in Our image: The use of the plural (Let Us . . . in Our
image, according to Our likeness) is consistent with the idea that there is
One God in three Persons, what we know as the Trinity.

i. Leupold does a good job showing that the plurality of let Us make cannot
be merely the plurality of royalty, nor can it be God speaking with and to
the angels. It is an indicator of the Trinity, though not clearly spelled
out.

http://enduringword.com/commentaries/0101.htm
Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"

Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity
is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The
Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully
understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are;
therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The
Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy
Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we
can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of
the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human
mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not
based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is
not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this
subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term
that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent,
co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept
represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following is
what God's Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1
Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7;
Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In
Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22,
11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word "Elohim"
and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew
language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the
Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for
"God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the
Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that
it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus'
baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the
Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19
and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the
Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various
passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis
19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The
Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God"
(Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm
45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father
about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that
Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider
also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father.
Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the
Trinity-the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans
1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9;
Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians
3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy
Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate
to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity
of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds
cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke
22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit
see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is
the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation
4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and
Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these
things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the
creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3;
Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27;
Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John
4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as
His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works:
creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm
104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);
salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1;
Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy
Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity.
However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg
(or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg,
not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple
are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat
better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid,
vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not
forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us
a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite
God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire
history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are
clearly presented in God's Word, some of the side issues are not as
explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is
God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.
Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and
non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our
finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of
God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the
riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who
has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).

Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions
by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Tom Vos
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:41 PM
To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

I realize that this list includes people from many faith traditions, but I
wish to make clear that the Christian Church has been overwhelmingly united
in affirming the Trinity.

The idea that Jesus once existed as Father, then as the Man, Jesus, and now
is manifest as the Holy Spirit is a teaching the church rejected early on in
its history as heresy.
Of course you can find people in the history of the early church who
believed this teaching, called modalism, but that doesn't mean it was the
predominant teaching of the church.
Nor as the church coming up with its own concoction.   This teaching of the
Trinity arose out of a very careful study of Scripture and has stood the
test of time.

I found the following website that contains a helpful examination of the
biblical evidence.
Blessings,
Tom
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a63.htm

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