[Faith-talk] more truth

John J. Boyer john at godtouches.org
Sun Jun 5 07:43:23 UTC 2011 

Kirt,

You are a good missionary for Jesus' attitudes. As I say on my website 
and in my signature, Peace, Love, Service. Let us begin with allo groups 
who claim to be Christian. 

Let us also not put limits on God's  mercy. Only He knows who will 
eventually end up in hell. Judge not, that you will not be judged. Do 
not condemn, and you will not be condemned.

John

On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:50:48AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> Joshua,
>   Ok, but the way we procelyte makes all the difference in the world.
> If we go in to it saying "I am right!  I am right and you're wrong
> because your doctrine is false!", we're not really going to win anyone
> over, are we?  I think a better way to do it, if you're going to
> procelyte, is to say "I see all the good you have now.  Come talk to
> me and we can add to it."  And, just because you don't "win everyone
> over" doesn't mean you can't work with those people who don't accept
> your doctrine to improve the world.  Some of my richest friendships
> are with those who disagree with my particular understanding of
> scripture.
>   And, Joshua, you're right.  I don't like it either when people call
> me "non-Christian", condemn me to hell, say I'm part of a "Satanic
> cult because I don't believe in the trinity, the list goes on and on
> forever what people can say.  I daresay we've probably had some of the
> same insults thrown at us...cult!  Hericy!  Apostate!  Non-Christian!
> Pagan!  (or, in your case, probably "monolatraist!"  It's not fair,
> it's not right, it hurts.  But Christ says love your enemies, turn the
> other cheak, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
> I'd certainly hope people of all faiths would treat me with the love
> and respect and dignity I feel my religion deserves, I'm sure you feel
> the same, so shouldn't we treat all others the same way we'd hope they
> would treat us?
>   Warmly,
> Kirt
> 
> On 6/5/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> > I stated my beliefs. Interreligious doalog does not mean concealing
> > one's own beloiefs but respecting and trying to understand the beliefs
> > of others.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:05:02AM -0500, Nikki wrote:
> >>    John,
> >> By saying all that, you are asking for an argument to start.
> >> That's just what I see happening.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John J. Boyer
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:33 PM
> >> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> >> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
> >>
> >> Kirt,
> >>
> >> That is the spirit of interreligious dialog.
> >>
> >> Now, to state my own beliefs. The correct interpretation of the Bible
> >> and of the teachings of the early Church that didn't make it into the
> >> New Testament is likely to be the interpretation of the Church Fathers.
> >> They were much closer to the culture of the Bible than we are, and they
> >> had resources that we don't.
> >>
> >> I believe that the Catholic Church is the one Christian group that has
> >> adhered most closely to the teaching of the Church Fathers. There has
> >> never been a Great Apostasy in which the whole Church abandoned the
> >> teachings. Therefore there cannot be a Restoration. Likewise, there was
> >> never a Reformation. However, the Church did learn from the latter to
> >> clean up its own house.
> >>
> >> This is not intended as a polemic. It is a rather novice attempt at
> >> interreligious dialog.
> >>
> >> Peace, Love, Service,
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 09:15:32PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
> >> >John,
> >> >  Here, here!  But that doesn't mean we don't talk and learn from each
> >> >other and have a constructive discussion.  I think it's ok to have a
> >> >civilized debate so long as it doesn't turn into an argument...am I
> >> >making any sense?  It's like saying "I respect you enough to tell you
> >> >I disagree with you on this issue, but look at all this common ground
> >> >we share!"  In other words, disagree agreeably.
> >> >  Blessings,
> >> >Kirt
> >> >
> >> >On 6/4/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
> >> >> Argument is out of place in discussion of religion. The objective
> >> >> should
> >> >> be to build tolerance, trust and understanding. There is a saying
> >> >> "Argue
> >> >> with no true believer." That is amply illistrated by some of the
> >> >> messages in this thread.
> >> >>
> >> >> Peace, Love, Service,
> >> >> John
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:51:47PM -0500, Barbara Hammel wrote:
> >> >>> Once upon a time this started out as a nice discussion comparing
> >> >>> different
> >> >>> beliefs and asking others about why they believed what they did.
> >> >>> Now, it seems to me, this conversation is turning into an argument
> >> >>> that
> >> >>> someone must win about whose beliefs are correct.
> >> >>> Let???s please just take this back to a question/answer thing instead
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> trying to convert.  Whether you believe in the Trinity or that the
> >> >>> three
> >> >>> are one is a silly point to argue over as long as we all know that one
> >> >>> must accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that one must repent and ask
> >> >>>
> >> >>> to
> >> >>> be forgiven in order to be called a child of God.
> >> >>> This debate is almost as silly as whether one is a mid-tribulation,
> >> >>> pre-tribulation or post-tribulation subscriber.
> >> >>> If you???ve asked to be forgiven, and accepted Christ as Lord and
> >> >>> Savior
> >> >>> of your life, the rest of these debates is just the devil trying to
> >> >>> separate us.  And a house divided against itself cannot stand.
> >> >>> Barbara
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
> >> >>> pay
> >> >>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
> >> >>> oppose
> >> >>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
> >> >>> liberty.--John
> >> >>> F. Kennedy
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> >> >> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> >> >> http://www.godtouches.org
> >> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> >> Peace, Love, Service
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >
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> >> --
> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> >> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> >> http://www.godtouches.org
> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> >> Peace, Love, Service
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> > --
> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> > GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> > http://www.godtouches.org
> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> > Peace, Love, Service
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Faith-talk mailing list
> > Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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> >
> 
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-- 
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service

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