[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
Kirt Manwaring
kirt.crazydude at gmail.com
Mon May 2 02:45:05 UTC 2011
Joshua,
That's a terrible translation, and it's not understood in context at
all. I'll try to explain.
Here's what the Arabic Qu'ran says. If your wife's causing lots of
trouble (if she's leaving at night, commiting adultery, being
disrespectful, etc) first admonish her gently. Then, if loving
admonition doesn't work, don't sleep with her. Still be a good
husband, sleep in the same house-just not in the same bed. In other
words, if she's causing real problems, and talking doesn't do
anything, don't have sex with her...and that's gonna be hard for the
husband, too. Finally, if that doesn't help anything, beat her
lightly.
Now the Qu'ran imposes a feww conditions on this light beating. You
can't cause pain. You can't cause any damage to the skin. You can't
hit any sensitive area of the body. You can't cause any injury.
So...basically, if you're beating your wife in the way the Qu'ran sets
forward, the worst you could do is tap the bottom of her feet with a
toothpick, or touch her shoulder with your finger...not even beating
at all!
So, you might ask why Muhammad (peace be upon him) would include
something like this in the Qu'ran. And the answer is basically that
the Arab society at the time was very cruel to women. It was very
common, totally routine for men to beat and abuse their wives. So
basically Muhammad is saying that when your wife is causing serious
problems (not any minor inconvenience but serious problems) first
admonish her. Then don't have sex with her. Then, finally, if that
doesn't help beat her so lightly you're pretty much not even beating
her at all! And if that's going to make things worse, don't even do
that. That's a huge step up from the Arab society where wives were
abused, beaten, and tortured.
So please, if you're going to make accusations like this, do a
little research first. (not just research from your own
religion...try to understand what it really means) Your statement is
pretty much the worst possible way to translate the original
Arabic...and when you understand Muhammad was trying to correct the
behavior of the Arabs who routinely hurt their wives, it makes a lot
more sense. And, like I said, if you're following what the Qu'ran
really says about this, you'll probably never even get to the point of
light corporal punishment in the first place...and, if you do, the
worst you could do isn't really even beating at all. Getting whacked
by a toothpick on your knee's really painful...last time I got tapped
on the shoulder, I had a bruise for weeks! See what I'm saying- the
Qu'ran doesn't say beat your wife at all!
God bless,
Kirt
On 4/30/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Kirt, I wasn't offended at all.
> There are some good things about Islam, but what about Sura 4:7?
> "If thy wife displeaseth thee, tie her to thy couch, and beat her."
> That's a passage in the Koran.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> I feel like I should appologize- that last message was personally
>> insulting and I regret sending it. But please understand, if I could
>> send it again, the only part I'd remove would be the last sentence.
>> Islam is, at the core, a beautiful religion which is so similar to
>> Christianity. I know this because I know practicing Christians and
>> Muslims...it's a religion which I believe is inspired, at least in
>> part, by God. And it does make me angry when people who don't
>> understand it belittle something sacred-imagine how you'd feel when
>> people say Jesus is evil and Christianity is just a way to oppress and
>> control people. Of course it's not true- but most people who say that
>> don't know any better. Islam is a noble and good religion at its
>> core- and it makes me mad when noble and good things are mocked and
>> belittled, however ignorantly or well-intentioned. But I am sorry for
>> making this personal with my last message- on that front, I ask your
>> forgiveness.
>> God bless,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>> They are told, as Christians are, to kill in self-defense. I'd
>>> suggest you try and understand this from the prospective of the
>>> Muslims before you make blanket statements like "muslims are
>>> instructed to kill," and "Christians were never instructed to do any
>>> of these things." Exodus says point-blank that you shouldn't suffer a
>>> witch to live---bingo! Let's go hang lots of supposed witches because
>>> the Bible says we can. Leviticus says it's ok to own slaves, even
>>> going into great detail as to how they should be treated-voila! God's
>>> on the side of the slave owners.
>>> Don't you see what I'm saying? Everything I just wrote probably
>>> sounds rediculous to you-as well it should. That's how the vast
>>> majority of Muslims feel when people say the Qu'ran gives license to
>>> kill or, god forbid, justifies terrorism! Think, here.
>>>
>>> On 4/30/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> Muslems are instructed to do the same things.
>>>> The Christians were never instructed to do them.
>>>> Christians were never told to kill, Muslems are.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>> What about the Salem witch trials? Those were Protestants...killing
>>>>> innocent people in the name of Christ. I know you'll say people who
>>>>> do that aren't real Christians- I agree with you! But the Muslims who
>>>>> are Terrorists aren't real Muslims either-the same standard applies.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>> Exactly! The Muslims that blow themselves up and kill innocent
>>>>>> people aren't real Muslims, either. That's my point!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/29/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> The ones that threatened pain, or death, were not true Christians.
>>>>>>> The Nazis, were not real Christians, either.
>>>>>>> You know that.
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joshua, Barbara and all,
>>>>>>>> Was it love that forced Muslims and Jews to convert to
>>>>>>>> Christianity,
>>>>>>>> on pain of death, in the middle ages? Was it Christlike love that
>>>>>>>> sent heratics and apostates to their executions, simply for
>>>>>>>> disagreeing with the church? Was it christlike love that sent
>>>>>>>> millions of Jews to the gas chambers? Was it Christlike love that
>>>>>>>> supressed scientific knowledge for centuries, merely for
>>>>>>>> contradicting
>>>>>>>> church dogma? Was it Christlike love that pitted Christian against
>>>>>>>> Christian, Catholic against Protestant, Catholic and Protestant
>>>>>>>> against Anabaptist, and all these against the rest of the world in
>>>>>>>> bloody wanton war? Wait...none of that ever happened, Christians
>>>>>>>> never tried to impose our religion by force...because we're more
>>>>>>>> loving!
>>>>>>>> Please understand I'm being so vehement because I have Muslim
>>>>>>>> friends and I know, firsthand, it is not a religion of oppression
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>> more than Christianity is. The Quran has verses which say go to war
>>>>>>>> against the infidels who attack you first...the Old Testament has
>>>>>>>> similar verses of scripture. Just as most Christians do not impose,
>>>>>>>> on pain of death, their faith on anyone else...Most Muslims live by
>>>>>>>> their scriptures and live as good neighbors and peacable citizens.
>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>> Islam is a religion of oppression, Christianity oppresses just as
>>>>>>>> much. It is a small minority of both religions, particularly in
>>>>>>>> moddern times, that seeks to impose their faith on others by force
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> arms. Both Christianity and Islam have had their share of saints
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> sinners- each religion has given birth to many good people and a few
>>>>>>>> evil ones...but please, for the love, don't pin labels on whole
>>>>>>>> religions just because a few verses of scripture _could_ be twisted
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> support evil. Because, if that were true, Christianity would be
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> as evil as Islam...and I can give you the Bible verses to back that
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> if you want.
>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/29/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Therefore, that makes it a religion of oppression.
>>>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:25 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>>>>> but that verse is folloed by:
>>>>>>>>> "but if they surrender, then do not strike."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between
>>>>>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ. You are
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> forced to follow the strict practices. Another difference is that
>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> are told to kill the infidels. In the old Testament, God did tell
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Israelites to kill all the people in a place. But when Jesus
>>>>>>>>>> came,
>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> Leviticus says. The law was given to us to see that we sin. "All
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> sinned and fall short of the glory of God." When Jesus came, He
>>>>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> would cast the first stone. Christians are taught to love the
>>>>>>>>>> sinner
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> hate the sin. If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
>>>>>>>>>> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
>>>>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is not a matter of who's right,
>>>>>>>>>> but who's message is right for whom.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian as i understand it. it is the personal relationship we
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> with Christ that saves us. being a good person or not being a
>>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>>>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i
>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in
>>>>>>>>>>> Christ
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother,
>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ
>>>>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>>>>>>>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his
>>>>>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life
>>>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>> is through Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> who can judge.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>>>>>>>>>> person"
>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come
>>>>>>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>> blows
>>>>>>>>>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>>>>>>>>>> intended in
>>>>>>>>>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the
>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>>>>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that
>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen,
>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for
>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> goes wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can
>>>>>>>>>>>> help.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to
>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way,
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>>>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> must,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> commandments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> God?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spirit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormon,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mandated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offended,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> baptize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>
More information about the Faith-Talk
mailing list