[Faith-talk] accessibility of church service material

Wed May 2 03:11:19 UTC 2012

I go to a church that has the verses and song lyrics on the overhead.
The rest of the choir can see the words to the songs we sing up there,
although acording to them, they are difficult to see most of the time.
 I know people who use braille in rehearsals or take down the lyrics
to the songs, but I choose to memorize because I am a music major, and
I feel like I should use my memory.  This is definitely not the easier
road and not what I would recommend for most people.  There is nothing
wrong with using braille on stage.

You can find most praise and worship songs online.  The lyrics can be
found on various websites, and you can always find recordings on
youtube.  I don't like doing research, but it's easy enough to find.
And yes, a lot of the newer songs(for better or worse:)) are
repetitive.

I really only have trouble with the overhead screens when they show a
long video with a song and visuals.  Does anyone else experience that
in church?

On 5/1/12, Jenny Keller <jlperdue3 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel the same way.  If everyone else is getting them materials for free,
> then I should have that same consideration.
>
> I don't expect charity, just equality.
>
> Some churches have the praise and worship music which is pretty repetitive
> so it's not hard to learn usually, but others, do not and if it's a church
> like mine, where the hymns are mostly all hymns written for the Latter Day
> Saint church, it's difficult to get them in any other format than braille.
>
> there are 300 or more hymns and we don't sing the same ones every week.
>
> Also, I am blessed that since the coir director uses music that is not
> standard hymns, she records everyone's part for them via mp3 and sends it to
> us.
>
> I can say that's a blessing.
>
> Jenny
> On May 1, 2012, at 12:59 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone.
>>
>> I think it's interesting the amount of options we have as blind
>> people.  I'm not really sure any one method of getting church material
>> is best.  Some prefer to scan it themselves, while others prefer for
>> their church to help them find it in braille.  Linda and others use
>> note takers to participate, and some just choose to listen and feel
>> included that way.
>>
>> Personally, I learn the songs faster than they can give it to me in
>> braille or even type out the lyrics in some cases.  I do ask our
>> worship pastor to do this when I have a solo, and when I have sung
>> praise team in the past, I have looked up the necessary lyrics myself
>> on the internet.  You can find most contemperary songs and all hymns
>> online.  Actually, I found a great website for hymns(which I can't
>> remember at the moment), but if you guys are curious, I'll look it up.
>>
>> I would love to have the verses we are studying in Sunday school class
>> in braille, but this is not possible all the time.  I have a note
>> taker, but I don't know the verses we are going to study most of the
>> time, and it is hard to get that info before class.  It doesn't bother
>> me because I'm an auditory learner, but I do realize that other people
>> would not like this arrangement.
>>
>> I go to a Southern Baptist church, and they have offered to perchase
>> audio or braille Sunday school material if/when it is available, and
>> that is not just for me--they buy all our materials.  I wouldn't mind
>> paying for mine as long as all the sighted people paid for their
>> materials as well.  I don't expect handouts, but I do expect to be
>> treated like the other members of my Sunday school class.
>>
>> On 4/30/12, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> i don't feel anhone owes me anything not even if i support the church, i
>>> do
>>>
>>> the best i can to get the materials in a format to use but ask nothing
>>> special of folks.  i have the ability to access all of the sermons and
>>> such
>>>
>>> on the church website and i am grateful the site is accessable.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:49 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] accessibility of church service material
>>>
>>>
>>> Jenny,
>>> exactly. I don't call making my own accessibility with OCR software a
>>> fair
>>> thing.
>>> If we support a church or buy religious material, they should be willing
>>> to
>>> provide an accessible format.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jenny Keller
>>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 9:31 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] accessibility of church service material
>>>
>>> I see your point.  But some of us don't have the money for OSR software
>>> or
>>> scanners.
>>>
>>> As far as buying study materials, I'm not asking that they put it in
>>> Braille, but PDF, or audio format isn't that much to ask, I'd willing
>>> pay
>>> for that.
>>>
>>> Fortunately in my church, all of our study materials are given to us
>>> free
>>> of
>>> charge.
>>>
>>> That's what our tithing and donations pay for.
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> On Apr 30, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>
>>>> i kind of look at it this way, sighted folks have to buy their
>>>> materials,
>>>>
>>>> i do not think that because i am blind i need to be some kind of
>>>> charity
>>>> case and get some poor person to put it in an accessable format for me,
>>>> i
>>>>
>>>> have Kurzweil so i can read just about anything that comes out, i do
>>>> all
>>>> the Beth Moore Bible studies using my Kurzweil scanner, also i feel
>>>> like
>>>> we all need to understand how expensive t is to produce braille or how
>>>> expensive it is to buy the equipment to produce braille, if all things
>>>> could be provided in a computer format then that would be nice but i do
>>>> not think we as blind folks should expect it to be free for us, then we
>>>> are acting like blind beggars instead of equal folks in the world, just
>>>> my
>>>>
>>>> opinion. i am a single mom so i am not saying this because i have tons
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>> money, i just want to be treated like everyone else and theya re
>>>> expected
>>>>
>>>> to pay for the books and journals and such so i should too.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Brown"
>>>> <63characters at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] accessibility of church service material
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When most of us were growing up, most church materials were
>>>> inaccessible,
>>>> and there wasn't much we could do about it.  These days, because most
>>>> printed material is produced on a computer, this situation seems to me
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> be
>>>> less acceptable.  I receive my church bulletin in accessible PDF, which
>>>> is
>>>> actually better than the Word document (some techie may know why).
>>>>
>>>> It is disturbing to me how much material for seminars and classes is
>>>> inaccessible.  While some ministries are working on a shoestring
>>>> budget,
>>>> others are charging churches a lot of money for their materials, and in
>>>> that
>>>> case I find inaccessibility unacceptable.  Some of these people seem
>>>> more
>>>> worried about protecting their copyright than spreading the gospel, and
>>>> I
>>>> have to wonder whether they are serving God or Mammon.
>>>>
>>>> I have been able to get Lifeways Ministries to provide some of Beth
>>>> Moore's
>>>> Bible courses, but it is more of a hassle than it should be, and I have
>>>> to
>>>> go through this application every time.
>>>>
>>>> I receive a journal in audio format called "Does God Exist," about the
>>>> Bible
>>>> and science.  The editor of the journal, John Clayton, reads it
>>>> himself,
>>>> and
>>>> a blind guy duplicates it on CD for him.  He really is working on a
>>>> shoestring budget, but he has a blind son, so he gets accessibility.
>>>>
>>>> Some teachers are very good at getting their class materials to me in
>>>> time
>>>> for class.  One of the best at my church is a retired college
>>>> professor,
>>>> so
>>>> he knows how to make outlines and study guides.  Some of the worst are
>>>> actually professional preachers, because they have trouble using their
>>>> computers.  Older ones seem to have more trouble than younger ones.
>>>>
>>>> I make it a point to ask, and I am trying to make it a policy not to
>>>> buy
>>>> study materials for seminars that are not accessible.  We had one
>>>> recently
>>>> at which nothing was accessible, and this person is supposed to be a
>>>> college
>>>> professor at an online university.  I hope no blind guy wants to take
>>>> his
>>>> classes, or he may find himself at the wrong end of a lawsuit.
>>>>
>>>> I think we are not being unreasonable to ask for accessible materials,
>>>> but
>>>> we ought to show some loving consideration for the particular
>>>> individuals
>>>>
>>>> we
>>>> may be dealing with at church.
>>>>
>>>> Debbie Brown
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:40 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] accessibility of church service material
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am a member of the LDS church.
>>>>
>>>> the hymnals a two volume bound braille volumes and the Sunday School
>>>> material and Relief Society, which is our women's group materials are
>>>> available on the website via just reading it on the site and being aboe
>>>> to
>>>> click on the scripture references, or audio that you can download or
>>>> just
>>>> listen to in mp3 format.
>>>>
>>>> the bulletins and such are not accessable.  But I'm sure if I asked
>>>> them
>>>> to
>>>> email me the contents they would.  I just never thought to do so.
>>>>
>>>> Jenny
>>>> On Apr 29, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I said I’d post something to generate discussion rather than the
>>>>> traffic
>>>>>
>>>>> about forwards or debate on what to post. IMO, if you have a question
>>>>> about posting a topic, ask the moderator off list.
>>>>> This sounds better to me than debating what topic is on topic for the
>>>>> list.
>>>>> We go through that ocasionally on other lists I’m on too; its annoying
>>>>> since the debate about the list just generates endless traffic with no
>>>>> answer.
>>>>> My topic here.
>>>>> For those of you going to church regularly, how is the accessibility
>>>>> of
>>>>> the material? I’ll speak to my methodist church growing up.
>>>>> They had a large braille hymnal of like 7 volumes for me. Other than
>>>>> that, the print wasn’t accessible. The schedule, bulletin, inserts of
>>>>> songs within the bulletin, etc was not accessible.  So I just listened
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> some songs and the other stuff read in the bulletin. For instance, we
>>>>> have to respond as a congregation to readings; I think its called the
>>>>> call to worship or something.
>>>>> I stood and listened to that. Everyone else reads from their sheet.
>>>>> I got a lot out of church since everyone hears the announcements,
>>>>> sermon,
>>>>>
>>>>> etc, but do not feel I was able to fully participate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlperdue3%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>> of Missouri recording secretary,
>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16