[humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does not discriminate

Sun Feb 22 01:06:36 UTC 2009

James,
    In my opinion, it's not a matter of the white cane being "superior"; 
rather, it is a matter of fundamental basic skills. Though every guide dog 
school says they require O&M skills prior to training with a guide dog, the 
practical application of this policy seems to fall well short of reality. 
The white cane is the foundation of good O&M skills, thus the reason guide 
dog schools at least assert they require it. Furthermore, there are numerous 
situations in which a cane is the better choice for mobility than a guide 
dog,e.g., roller skating, fishing on a crowded boat, inclement weather. 
concerts, fairs, and visiting someone in their home where a dog may not be 
welcome because of allergies or just the desire to not have a dog in the 
home, to name just a few. In addition, if the dog becomes ill and the 
handler does not have cane travel skills, the person is unable to maintain 
independence and will not be able to go out!
    I'm not sure if it was on this list or not, but I made the following 
analogy of the importance of having options for mobility. A carpenter learns 
to use a hammer, but the carpenter cannot build a house with only a hammer. 
If the carpenter says, "I don't want to learn to use the saw, the level, the 
plumb bob, or any of the other tools of the trade, they will not be a very 
good carpenter. I know many guide dog users who refuse to use a cane and 
make many irrational statements about their guide dog, such as, "If a person 
doesn't want my dog in their house, they don't want me in their house!" I 
believe they have given the dog so much importance that they have lost their 
independence without it. They may not have good mobility skills with the 
cane and, for this reason, may not want to use it because they feel 
self-conscious with it. I know several people who refuse to use a cane and 
severely limit themselves and their potential because they limit the tools 
they are willing to use.
    A training center, such as the Iowa Commission for the Blind and the NFB 
centers are justified in their assertion that guide dog users need to take 
part in their O&M training! It cannot be assumed that, just because someone 
uses a guide dog, they have good O&M skills. Now, if the guide dog schools 
really did demand that a person have good white cane travel skills, that may 
be a different story. Then again, what would "good white cane travel skills" 
be? Just as those who attend NFB centers get O&M training, whether they have 
already had it or not, guide dog users must engage in the same program. It 
is part and parcel to their program. If they let someone choose which parts 
of the program they will participate in and which they will not, the entire 
program would be less effective because there would be no consistency. 
Without this consistency, the program would be viewed less favorably because 
no one would be able to determine which parts of the program were 
implemented and which were not.
    I alluded to taking classes in an earlier message. I once wrote a very 
controversial letter to the editor of my university newspaper because 
another blind student in my program claimed that, because of his blindness, 
he should be exempt from taking statistics. I argued that doing so devalued 
my degree, since others who see that I graduated from the same program could 
wonder whether or not I received an adequate education. If a student at a 
particular center was able to pick and choose which part of the training to 
participate in, would that not call into question the very efficacy of the 
training?

Fraternally,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users
National Federation of the blind

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Brown" <jbrown321 at comcast.net>
To: "Human Services Mailing List" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
not discriminate


> Hi Shannon,
>
> I'm going to copy your statement below, but I'm going to insert cane users 
> in the place of dog users because I have seen the same thing on the other 
> side.
>
> Here's the converse of your statement.  I agree about the skills of some 
> of those who use canes.  I've seen some who are fantastic and others who I 
> wonder how they manage to get out of their own house.
>
> Weather it's a cane or dog, some people are going to get around better no 
> matter how much training they have.  You can't train physical and 
> cognitive aptitude.
>
> What I want to know is, are canes really a better mode of travel than 
> dogs? Because by mandating in depth, pervaisive cane travel, it sends an 
> unspoken message of superiority.
>
> Again, I'm not talking about the legality, but the principal.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Shannon Cook" <SCook at sccb.sc.gov>
> To: "'Human Services Mailing List'" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy 
> does not discriminate
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I agree about the skills of some of those who have dogs.  I've seen some 
>> who are fantastic and others who I wonder how they manage to get out of 
>> their own house.  Thanks for your thoughts on this topic.  I can 
>> understand more why this decision was made.
>>
>> Shannon Cook, MSW
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:humanser-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Alicia Richards
>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 1:02 PM
>> To: Human Services Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog policy 
>> does not discriminate
>>
>> Oops, I sent my earlier email to the wrong list.  My apologies!  *Smile* 
>> I
>> had meant to respond to Shannon.
>>
>> Yes, some of the things you say are true, Shannon.  A person who attends
>> guide dog school is, technically, supposed to have good mobility already,
>> and be signed off by an O&M instructor.  However, this is definitely not
>> always the case by a longshot. Not all clients who go through guide dog
>> programs do in fact have good mobility skills.  I used to have a guide 
>> dog
>> myself, and I assure you that quite a few of the people in my class had
>> terrible mobility skills, yet they, and their instructor, thought a dog
>> would simply fix that problem.  My school actually had to send one 
>> student
>> home, she was that poor of a traveler.
>>
>> Also, when you go to a college to get a certain degree, rarely can you 
>> just
>> skip classes because you feel like it.  If the college does give you that
>> option, you most generally have to test out of that class, and if the 
>> school
>> is not satisfied with your test results, you don't get to skip the class.
>> So it seems to go with a Center.  If you go to a Center, in my opinion, 
>> part
>> of what you must accept is their entire program, or don't go to that
>> particular Center.  Or, if the Center is going to make adjustments, then
>> they should test the person's skills in that particular area, but reserve
>> the right not to allow them out of that course if they are not satisfied
>> with the skills they see.
>>
>> Alicia
>>
>>
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