[nabs-l] Social Etiquette

Mon Nov 3 19:59:42 UTC 2008

Thanks, Ashley.  I don't think I have a file of myself singing, but
maybe one of these days, I'll see if I can put a video up on FaceBook.
 Do you have a FaceBook?
Beth

On 11/3/08, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Beth,
>
> We have something in common wich is comforting.  Even though I was raised
> with manners, I had few friends in high school as well.  Students were
> acquaintences but not friends.
> I did join extra curricular activities like Spanish club but no friends
> developed.  The adults were always more friendly and helpful than students.
> Beth, I was also in chorus in middle school.  I love singing but am not good
> at it.  Can you send me a file with you singing or put it on a website so I
> can hear you?
>
> I also did not go to the social things like dances and shop with friends.
> That is why I suggested these things and you can do them with friends if you
> have them.  They are:
> 1. Talk with parents and teachers about how to act and manners.
> 2. Role play some situations.
> 3. Parents can take their children to such gatherings for practice.  For
> instance my father invited me to his holiday work party.  I learned much by
> just doing them.  For instance my parents took me to church, fancy
> restaurants occassionally, I got invited to a lion's club meeting and saw
> how it was conducted like Robert's Rules, and public places.  For instance
> although not with friends I went with family including my older siblings to
> the mall, restaurants including buffets, movies, church, concerts, and
> amusement parks.  I went more places but you get the picture.
> So Beth, although we may not have friends I think  parents can foster good
> manners and expose their children to many life experiences so they learn in
> those settings.
>
> Ashley
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>
>
> I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with friends
> is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the friends in
> the first place.  I had practically no friends in high school that I
> could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa marching
> band and chorus.  That was it.
> Beth
>
> On 11/3/08, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Arielle,
>>
>> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough.  What is needed along
>> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us aside and
>> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..."  Honest, non-judgmental feedback
>> is necessary for improvement.  If you know what you just did and what cue
>> you just missed, you can adapt.  If you don't, you can't.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for high
>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>beyond. One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact sheet is
>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on the
>>>situation and the expectations of the people around. Just as there is
>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way to
>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one setting
>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one. Really what
>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations and
>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in those
>>>situations.
>>>
>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>behavior. However, there is a big difference between simply knowing
>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms. In order
>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also be
>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>behavior. Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who  picks
>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know that
>>>it's inappropriate. More likely, though, is that he's  been told it's
>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>doesn't care—either because his parents didn't scold or punish him for
>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in the
>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble for
>>>picking his nose. A third possibility is that he is motivated to not
>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's doing
>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch inside
>>>his nose to relieve it, etc. The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>etiquette isn't enough—people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate. There are some behaviors
>>>commonly seen in blind people—known as "blindisms"—that can become so
>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to stop
>>>they still  have difficulty doing it. Eye-poking is an example of a
>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are motivated
>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating it.
>>>(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from conversations
>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop and
>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes). To give a
>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about the
>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but there
>>>are just some people who are always late—maybe they just don't care,
>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize their
>>>time so they're not late, etc.
>>>
>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve their
>>>social etiquette—not only by teaching what's appropriate (knowledge),
>>>but by instilling motivation. Blind kids may be less motivated than
>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because they've
>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see other
>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior. So I think the emphasis
>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different social
>>>situations and building connections with others—rather than just
>>>telling them to do or not do certain things. Giving rewards for good
>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around to
>>>observe their actions. Ideally they will learn through experience that
>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others makes
>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals.
>>>
>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas?
>>>
>>>Arielle
>>>
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>>
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